"The Girl Who Died" Grading and Discussion Thread

[Emperor-Tiberius]

It does raise the question as to why the first Doctor modeled his next face after Salamander - he wanted to be a ruthless politician and tyrant?

Same question can be asked about Maxil. Maybe he wanted to look like a jerk, as well as being one.

Really, I was expecting something more substantial than this. Like, that the Doctor borrows a face from someone who already exists - so there are people out that do look like Pertwee, Davison, McCoy, etc. and the Doctors simply adopts their physique when he regenerates for whatever reason.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

If I remember correctly, the Doctor and Donna spent time with Caecilius' family before the volcano erupted. So, for the Doctor, the Pompeiian might have been more than a stranger to him when the act of saving took place. He might have been a friend, and remembering how he saved his friend is the reminder he needs. Thus, the face.

Two regenerations. Twelve hundred years.

Let me repeat that. Two regenerations. Twelve hundred years. That's how long, for the Doctor, give or take a decade or so, was between meeting Caecilius and his family and his new regeneration cycle on Trenzalore.

Twelve. Hundred. Years.

It would have made more sense if the Doctor subconsciously took the form of someone on Trenzalore. After all, he'd seen everyone there, for nine hundred years, be born, grow old, and die. He lived with them daily in a way that he never lived with Clara.

Sometimes I think Moffat forgets that marooned the Doctor on Trenzalore for hundreds of years, because the twelfth Doctor never acts like it. His relationship with Clara, for one thing, has never felt like it has that kind of discontinuity in it; he picks up in "Deep Breath" like the Christmas dinner with her family was a few days previous.

This explanation is like the fourth wall breakage last week. It's something meta that makes sense in terms of television and its production, but it makes zero sense in-universe. None.

Twelve hundred years, Moffat! Twelve. Hundred. Years.

 

[The Four Doctor]

Also, I'd like to know in-universe why the second Doctor looks like that unnamed Robin Hood actor featured in Robot of Sherwood. Unless that's actually the Doctor from the "Exiled to Earth, but not Forcibly Regenerated" period after The War Games.

 

[Marten]

I'm a little bit torn about the episode. It felt like it wanted to do two very different things, and not really succeeding with combining them.

As far as silly episodes goes, I thought it was quite fun. Obviously exaggerated vikings, horned helmets, what could possibly go wrong? Some good quotes as well. I especially liked Clara's "The universe is full of testosterone. Trust me, it's unbearable.

I also thought the serious bits were well done. I don't mind the Caelius-thing. I rather think it would make sense to do something subtle, like a forgotten face. We don't really know how regenarations work, I suppose it could work to send some sort om messge through. The question of immortality is an intriguing one, and I found the scenes to be rather moving. Could be a good foundation for a longer arch. The chip-thingy seemed far-fetched, though.

My problem is this: they really don't work together. I guess it's possible to combine funny episodes with serious issues (Victory of the Daleks comes to mind), but I didn't think they succeeded this time.

Anyway, I look forward to next week to see what happens to The girl who died.

 

[Captrek]

It does raise the question as to why the first Doctor modeled his next face after Salamander - he wanted to be a ruthless politician and tyrant?

Same question can be asked about Maxil. Maybe he wanted to look like a jerk, as well as being one.

Really, I was expecting something more substantial than this. Like, that the Doctor borrows a face from someone who already exists - so there are people out that do look like Pertwee, Davison, McCoy, etc. and the Doctors simply adopts their physique when he regenerates for whatever reason.

Perhaps Tom Baker's museum curator from Day of the Doctor was someone who had met an early incarnation of the Doctor and been the inspiration for Four's face.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Twelve hundred years, Moffat! Twelve. Hundred. Years.

Agreed, a nice flashback of the Doctor saving some chap at Trenzalore also played by Capaldi the audience knew nothing about would have been so much better.

Coming to think of it, for all we know, Ten had enough time to travel to Trenzalore to visit Eleven (I think he was there for Twelve hundred years), where has was urged by someone who happened to look like Donna to save someone who looked like Caecilius. Makes all the sense in-universe, and absolutely no sense on screen.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

It does raise the question as to why the first Doctor modeled his next face after Salamander - he wanted to be a ruthless politician and tyrant?

Same question can be asked about Maxil. Maybe he wanted to look like a jerk, as well as being one.

Really, I was expecting something more substantial than this. Like, that the Doctor borrows a face from someone who already exists - so there are people out that do look like Pertwee, Davison, McCoy, etc. and the Doctors simply adopts their physique when he regenerates for whatever reason.

Perhaps Tom Baker's museum curator from Day of the Doctor was someone who had met an early incarnation of the Doctor and been the inspiration for Four's face.

Or maybe the First Doctor simply liked Tom Baker, unknown actor he met at a pub once. :P

 

[Skellington]

A better episode than I expected. Cheap-looking, perhaps (the baddies could almost have walked off the set of Red Dwarf), and the characters consisted mainly of the two regulars and some furniture, but still a satisfying enough romp. But it was very Saturday night and really not too silly, plus it boasted several interesting conversations. A relatively straightforward episode, but maybe the strongest so far this year.

Two regenerations. Twelve hundred years.

Let me repeat that. Two regenerations. Twelve hundred years. That's how long, for the Doctor, give or take a decade or so, was between meeting Caecilius and his family and his new regeneration cycle on Trenzalore.

Twelve. Hundred. Years.

It would have made more sense if the Doctor subconsciously took the form of someone on Trenzalore. After all, he'd seen everyone there, for nine hundred years, be born, grow old, and die. He lived with them daily in a way that he never lived with Clara.

Sometimes I think Moffat forgets that marooned the Doctor on Trenzalore for hundreds of years, because the twelfth Doctor never acts like it. His relationship with Clara, for one thing, has never felt like it has that kind of discontinuity in it; he picks up in "Deep Breath" like the Christmas dinner with her family was a few days previous.

This explanation is like the fourth wall breakage last week. It's something meta that makes sense in terms of television and its production, but it makes zero sense in-universe. None.

Twelve hundred years, Moffat! Twelve. Hundred. Years.

Yeah, Moffat has pretty much ignored Trenzalore, even in the last Christmas episode. He also seems to be ignoring the fact that Eleven was (retroactively) out of regenerations. I don't have a problem with the length of time, though. If Eleven set the parameters of his next regen at the age of say 910 (just on the off-chance that he'd get a new one) then Caecilius would have been fresh enough in his mind at the time.

Also, I'd like to know in-universe why the second Doctor looks like that unnamed Robin Hood actor featured in Robot of Sherwood. Unless that's actually the Doctor from the "Exiled to Earth, but not Forcibly Regenerated" period after The War Games.

Robots Of Sherwood would have been infinitely better if the Doctor had made some kind of meta reference at that point.

 

[The Four Doctor]

Actually i like the idea of the second Doctor in the "exiled, but not regenerated" period between TWG and SFS taking a few acting jobs to augment his funds for his efforts to escape the Time Lords completing his sentence.

 

[Mr Soak]

I thought the Mire armour looked like steampunk Judoon armour.

 

[diankra]

Lots of unseen stories: maybe Hartnell met someone who was played by Troughtton offscreen, Pertwee met Rasputin (who looked like Tom Baker,cut in here Lonemagpie), and Tom visited Darrowby and met the Farnons...

 

[Captrek]

I want to know who inspired Harold Saxon's face for The Master, because he really, really loved that face.

 

[Mr Awe]

Very good, although that's being a bit generous. It was lighthearted fun. It tried to be funny, and partially succeeded. The characters were meant for fun, and they partially succeeded. We were suppose to feel for Alsidr, and they partially succeeded. The resolution using the eels was nonsense. And, why would they have technology that would make humans immortal? That was very contrived. Still, it was fun.

Mr Awe

 

[Captrek]

I was a little annoyed the way the rules suddenly changed without explanation.

Early on, The Doctor explains his dilemma to Clara: even if the farmers could defeat the Mire, it would be a disaster, because the story would get out and make Earth a target. But as soon as he comes up with a way to defeat them, he decides it's perfectly safe to do so because the Mire would be too humiliated to tell anyone. Did something change, besides the need for the story to go from "no-win scenario" to "winnable scenario"?

 

[diankra]

Yeah, the 'not making tidal waves' thing does seem to happen twice. And he does a lot of sonicing after the sonic glasses have been smashed (and the surviving half possibly left on the Mire ship). And...
I have a few more plot holes up my sleeve if I can remember them... but that goes for most Who stories.

 

[Starkers]

Yeah, Moffat has pretty much ignored Trenzalore, even in the last Christmas episode. He also seems to be ignoring the fact that Eleven was (retroactively) out of regenerations.

I don't see how he's forgetting 11 had no more regenerations? Just last week the Doctor was talking about his regeneration being "a bit of a clerical error" and even if he did choose this face he did so subconsciously. I don't imagine he sat down with a catalogue or anything

I've never understood why it needs to be explained why 12 looks like some Roman dude, any more than it needed explain why Gwen looked like Gwyneth or Martha looked like her even less memorable cousin! But if it had to be mentioned I'm glad it was in a throwaway moment like this rather than an entire episode being devoted to it.

As for the Mire technology being able to make humans immortal, I thought the Doctor took something from their medical kit and sonic'd it, I doubt the chip was meant to work that way. Also, and I may have misinterpreted this, but the chip won't make her immortal in the same way Jack's immortal. He can't die, and as Children of Men proved, blow him into tiny bits and he still comes back. I got the impression that if Maisie suffers enough damage, the chip won't be able to repair her?

 

[Nightowl1701]

As for the Mire technology being able to make humans immortal, I thought the Doctor took something from their medical kit and sonic'd it, I doubt the chip was meant to work that way. Also, and I may have misinterpreted this, but the chip won't make her immortal in the same way Jack's immortal. He can't die, and as Children of Men proved, blow him into tiny bits and he still comes back. I got the impression that if Maisie suffers enough damage, the chip won't be able to repair her?

'Barring accidents,' yeah. But it'd take one hell of an accident, something that would have to pretty much vaporize her instantly.

 

[Romulan_spy]

As for the Mire technology being able to make humans immortal, I thought the Doctor took something from their medical kit and sonic'd it, I doubt the chip was meant to work that way.

Yes, the Doctor specifically said that he modified the chip to work on humans.

 

[Captain Dago]

Oh, for fuck's sake guys, lighten up. It was fun, it set up the rest of the season, and we got some nice character moments.

It doesn't all have to be fucking Zagreus. I watch this show to be six again for an hour a week.

What he said.

 

[kirk55555]

I thought this was a fairly good episode. Some goofy stuff, but comedy can work well on Doctor Who depending on how its done, and I think they did a decent job here, although the villains were pretty boring. I actually liked the explanation for his face, it seemed to fit well to me. Overall, this wasn't as good as the first two parter, but I liked it better than either of the underwater base episodes (which weren't bad, just not as good.)