Spoilers The game changing Voq theory

[SJA]

Some good theories and explanations! Not sure if

Spoiler

capturing Lorca is by luck or design in ep

but I think the Klingons could have saved themselves the bother of buggering about with Ash Tyler and just used

Spoiler

Lorca!

Would have saved them a fortune in plastic surgeons fees and those fleecing imprinting memories technicians (We all know how expensive they can be!) and they would have the added bonus of him being

Spoiler

a Starfleet Captain on their most advanced ship

and a budding psychopath to boot!

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

OK, so if Voq is supposed to get transformed into Tyler by "losing everything" (meaning his Klingon-ness),...

• Radical physical alteration. No more head ridges, no more claw-like hands, two nostrils rather than four, straight teeth instead of the Ronco Shred-A-Matic choppers. A throat that doesn't look borrowed from an H.R. Giger exhibit. Eye pigmentation that isn't a Sherwin-Williams castoff colour.
• Hair!
• Speaking in a non-guttural, normally paced manner in Federation Standard.
• Bathing. Probably a deal breaker, that one.
• Wearing clothing that wasn't hammered out on the forges of Qo'nos.

I'm certain I've missed a few things.

 

[Tuskin38]

Wearing clothing that wasn't hammered out on the forges of Qo'nos.

We already saw some last episode.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

We already saw some last episode.

Yeah, I know. Sporty deck fashions for the true believers and starving. I wonder if they were playing craps with Georgiou's knuckles?

[Historical context: sheep's knuckles were the earliest known form of dice for gambling and divination. So I'm only being mostly a smart-arse this time.]

 

[Uhura's Song]

Great theory. I like it. I am on that train.

I expect more good stuff tonight.

 

[Albinator]

It's pretty clear Latif is Voq. Far too much evidence to think otherwise.

My hope however is that this is not some big twist, and it is revealed in the very next episode when we meet Tyler, rather than at the end of the season.

OR -- and this is a very extreme longshot-- but perhaps the name/credit/actor stuff is all a double bluff to misdirect fans, and Voq goes undercover as someone else.

 

[SJA]

OK, so if Voq is supposed to get transformed into Tyler by "losing everything" (meaning his Klingon-ness),...

• Radical physical alteration. No more head ridges, no more claw-like hands, two nostrils rather than four, straight teeth instead of the Ronco Shred-A-Matic choppers. A throat that doesn't look borrowed from an H.R. Giger exhibit. Eye pigmentation that isn't a Sherwin-Williams castoff colour.
• Hair!
• Speaking in a non-guttural, normally paced manner in Federation Standard.
• Bathing. Probably a deal breaker, that one.
• Wearing clothing that wasn't hammered out on the forges of Qo'nos.

I'm certain I've missed a few things.

Sounds like 'Extreme Makeover - Klingon Edition'

 

[DigificWriter]

It's pretty clear Latif is Voq. Far too much evidence to think otherwise.

Speculation is not evidence.

 

[Tuskin38]

Speculation is not evidence.

Not all of it is speculation.

 

[DigificWriter]

Not all of it is speculation.

Yes, it is.

 

[Tuskin38]

Yes, it is.

Voq not being played by the actor listed is fact, not speculation.

 

[DigificWriter]

Voq not being played by the actor listed is fact, not speculation.

No, it's not.

 

[Tuskin38]

No, it's not.

Did you miss the last 5 pages?

 

[Albinator]

Speculation is not evidence.

Speculation is indeed evidence. But I did not say it was fact, just that there is too much real world evidence to reasonably think otherwise. As I said, one possible explanation for that evidence is if its an intentional misdirection.

 

[Tuskin38]

Yeah, Evidence =/= Fact until prove fact.

Evidence contributes to speculation.

 

[Albinator]

Yeah, Evidence =/= Fact until prove fact.

Evidence contributes to speculation.

But evidence we've seen (actor credits, names, lack of press from this actor) is too strong to be dismissed, and few reasonable conclusions can be made from this evidence other than the conclusion that Latif = Voq in some way, shape, or form.

It might not be beyond a reasonable doubt in a murder case, but it's enough to convince me for a TV show. Maybe it's not the case, but if it isn't, there's definitely something fishy going on that I wouldn't feel foolish for thinking it.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

But evidence we've seen (actor credits, names, lack of press from this actor) is too strong to be dismissed, and few reasonable conclusions can be made from this evidence other than the conclusion that Latif = Voq in some way, shape, or form.

It might not be beyond a reasonable doubt in a murder case, but it's enough to convince me for a TV show. Maybe it's not the case, but if it isn't, there's definitely something fishy going on that I wouldn't feel foolish for thinking it.

This comes to mind:

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[Albinator]

This comes to mind:

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I don't see why. There's really no connection to what I said. My point was that if I'm wrong, I wouldn't feel foolish because the evidence is clearly pointing in one direction.

Basically, I'm looking at a creature that walks and talks like a duck, so I'm concluding it's a duck. Now, it could be a guy in a duck costume, doing a good impression of a duck walk, but I wouldn't feel foolish for my conclusion if that was the case.

 

[CardassianAssassin]

My biggest problem with this theory

I have a hard time believing that at some point there was a room full of writers/producers/etc, and not a single one of them said:

“Wait, what... We’re doing this?!? Don’t get me wrong, we all thought Voq becoming a human it was pretty cool as a “wouldn’t it be crazy if....” story, just like the whole Saru/Tardigrade sexual assault idea, but... We’re going ahead with FOR REAL?!?”

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

I don't see why. There's really no connection to what I said. My point was that if I'm wrong, I wouldn't feel foolish because the evidence is clearly pointing in one direction.

Basically, I'm looking at a creature that walks and talks like a duck, so I'm concluding it's a duck. Now, it could be a guy in a duck costume, doing a good impression of a duck walk, but I wouldn't feel foolish for my conclusion if that was the case.

I might have missed a step in my thought process. There was something fishy, and we are looking at it one way. And whilst we might have have stumbled onto it, it might instead be that the producers have planted this seed intentionally to make us think something that isn't true... or they might have have intentionally done it to second guess that same thing is true, and then talk ourselves out of it, only to realise that it is... ad infinitum.