The Galileo Seven (no relation to Blake's)

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Qonundrum, Jun 15, 2021.

  1. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    True, but I assumed that by the time the natives started pounding on the shuttlecraft in your scenario was about the same time it occurred in the episode...at which point, phasers were identified as the fuel alternative. Maybe without the "show of force" from Spock, they would have attacked the shuttlecraft sooner? Or later? Or at all?
     
  2. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    Galileo Seven creature window script.jpg
    Galileo Seven creature window mockup.jpg
    ^^^Mockup by moi


    They fully planned to show the creatures. Several shots near the end were cut but we've seen no documentary evidence as to why. We can assume because the makeup didn't hold up, but it's also possible NBC found them too alarming looking for the early evening timeslot. It's all guesswork.

    Galileo Seven creature Bucl Maffi.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
  3. alchemist

    alchemist Captain Captain

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    The authors of Star Trek: Lost Scenes did something similar. You should check out their work on pages 78 and 79.
     
  4. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    Yeah... I recall that, but I am traveling and don't have the book at hand.
     
  5. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That reminds me of the Arthur C. Clarke story "A Meeting With Medusa". As I remember, the protagonist descends into the tmosphere of Jupiter and discovers gigantic lifeforms floating in the atmosphere.

    At one point he worries about what could he do if one of the lifeforms attacks him. And he remembers watching a televisin talk show where an astronaut and a space lawyer talked about the regulations and laws pertaining to contact with alien life, even if that life is not intelligent.

    The lawyer explained that it ws illegal for an astronaut to do anthing which might disturb or harm even the most primitive alien lifeforms. And the shocked astronaut said someing like "So that means that if a alien lifeform tries to eat me I have to let it?" And the lawyer said "That's right."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

    So on Earth Folsom Points were made by fully anatomically modern humans only 11,500 to 10,00 years ago. They were made by beings who were who were clearly people with rights, not by mere animals.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folsom_point

    In "Bread and Circuses":

    "The Omega Glory":

    So wuldn't the Galileo 7 crew be violating the Prime Directive if they killed a bunch of the natives?

    And I think tha the writers forgot or conveniently ignored several possibles. If the galileo 7 used something like rocket power to land, man of the locas might be been incinerated, and teh ohers might be fleeing the ame way they would flee from a volcanic r eruption. And if they used anything like rocket to lift off a weight as large as the Galileo 7, it would have roasted all life winthin about amile, including the hostiles trying to hold the hsip down.

    So maybe the Galileo used anti gravity fueled by theengery drained from the phsers to take off. And hte amount of energy used to take off using antigravity might not have been in the same for a a s rocket blasting off, and might not have killed the natives, but would have involved using energy as rapidly as a airplane taking off or a rocket blastng off.

    Even if there were two or three aliens with the weight of gigantopithecus trying to hold down the shuttle, their combined weight wuldn't be able to hold down the Galileo any more than it would be enough to hold down an airliner taking off or a Saturn V blasting off.

    What if they used phasers on heat setting to heat up rocks and the ground as in "The Enemy Within" and "Spock's Brain"? They culd mesure out a circle a few hundred feet wide around the Galileo, and heat up all the rocks and dirt in that ringe, making the rng of hot ground too wide for the natives to jump, and two hot to walk over.

    Someone could object that would use up too much energy from the phasers and they would never get off the planet. But nobody should make such an objecton until they calculate how much energy it would take to heat up the rocks as suggested and how much energy it would take to lift the Galileo into orbit..

    And the thought occured to me that they could have shot phasers up in the air in Morse code SOS pattern, They could choose a phaser setting that interacted with the palent's atmosphere to make the brightest light sow, to attract the attentin of the Enterprise and maybe scare away the natives.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
  6. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If a law deprives you of the most basic right of self defense, then that would be Topic A. The law itself needs to be put on trial. The bit in "Bread and Circuses" that goes "I believe you all swore you'd die before you'd violate that Directive" is evidence that the problem is indeed that bad.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2021
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  7. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think the Prime Directive only counts on a planet with a growing, thriving population of intelligent beings, not a world of savage anthropoid killers! The same reasoning as in when a planet begins to develop a faster than light space travel device or ship is when the Federation begins to start First Contact procedures! The Beta Niobe situation on Sarpeidon is another of those odd stories where Kirk and crew beam down to a world unaware of other races and yet the disappearance of the population is of great interest to the team. I wonder if the people had of not discovered time travel how would Kirk explain his Federation to them and begin saving those who wanted to be saved?
    JB
     
  8. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    Isn't that the same excuse that people used to use when colonising the America's, Australia, Africa etc?
    Well the Prime Directive doesn't forbid killing the natives. Just not killing them in a technically superior way.
    Didn't Kirk use a machine gun in Bread and Circuses?
    So I think they weren't forbidden by the Prime Directive but you know if an alien crash landed on Earth and killed off a bunch of us with a laser beam to teach us a lesson and give us a bloody nose, how would we feel?
    Saying that the natives were very primitive and probably never thought more than when they were getting their next meal so does the Prime Directive even apply to them? Even though they were sentient and using tools, would the appearance of technology affect them in the slightest. Maybe for the Prime Directive to apply the natives might have to have a written language as a minimum. I mean is there a lower level when it cuts in? The higher level is when it cuts out is when they reach Warp level (or the Federation wants something from them).
     
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  9. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well I see your point but they were tribal peoples rather than eight foot tall anthropoidal savages of Taurus II who were intent on murdering the crew of the Galileo!
    JB
     
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  10. Scott Kellogg

    Scott Kellogg Commander Red Shirt

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    When you're examining the moral dilemma here, it might be useful to take a look at the source material that "Galileo 7" was based on. In "Five Came Back" they weren't giant stone age apes, they were a savage stone age Amazon tribe. The Elderly Anthropologist in the movie basically makes it clear if they were caught, it means death by slow torture. Burned alive. the 'Cut off his feet and make him dance while the tribe laughs' sort of thing.

    One thing that the couldn't do on Star Trek was the heroic climax of the film:
    One man, who'd been condemned to death for murder, steals the one gun they have.
    He demands that he be left behind, and that the elderly couple stay with him as the three of them had agreed.
    The others have vital lives to go back to. The volunteers' lives are nearly ended and they will commit suicide rather than face the torture.

    It's a horrible, brave ending when the murderer sees that he has only two bullets left and shoots the elderly couple as they embrace. Leaving no merciful bullet for himself as the savages close in.
     
  11. IMC Headquarters

    IMC Headquarters Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    Boma was heard to mutter, "There's something familiar about all this."

    I just love the care James Doohan gives to Scotty's tinkering. I don't know how the hell draining phasers will excite ion plasma, or whatever, but I do know Scotty will get it working!

    And when is head is examining the compartment, I can't help imagining him say, "Aye, the fuel pump is shot alright. It'll cost ye twelve-hundred for starters..."
     
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  12. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Do you know how long prehuman primates were making stone tools on Earth before their descendants, fully human menbers of the species Homo sapiens, developed stone tools as advanced as Folsom points LIterally a few million years. The Folsom piont that the Taurus II spearheads reasembled was literally the result of millions of years of slow development.

    So the Taurus II natives might look like gigantopithecus, but they clearly had the mental abilities of Homo sapiens. So it seems that they had veen evolving their tools, and their bodies and grains, from millions of years since they started making stone tools. And if the Taurus II natives went from first using stone tools to making the equivalent of Folsom points in less time that primates on Earth did, that would imply that they were more intelligent than humans.

    I believe that you live in the British Isles, johnnybear. And as I remember, the ancient Greeks and Romans considered the inhabitants of the British Isles in their era to be savage anthropoid killers like you describe the Taurus II natives.

    Suppose that thousands of years ago, alien space travellers landed in the British Isles and and were attacked by the primitive natives and used their ray guns to slaughter hundreds of them Statistically that would probably eliminate some of your ancestors before they could repoduce, and thus you, and millions of other people, would never have been born.
     
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  13. Scott Kellogg

    Scott Kellogg Commander Red Shirt

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    Partial List of tool using animals:
    • Chimpanzees.
    • Crows.
    • Orangutans.
    • Elephants.
    • Dolphins.
    • Sea Otters.
    • Gorillas.
    • Octopuses.
    Personally, I think the right to defend one's self is one of those inalienable rights people talk about.
     
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  14. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It is; honest self-preservation--particularly when defending your own life from the threat of death--is the most natural right of a person. In the case of the Galileo's crew, they landed on the planet by accident, sought no conflict with any native population, and were viciously attacked for their troubles. Although Spock wanted to merely scare off the creatures rather than kill them (as the others desired), ultimately, it was an impractical idea, as the creatures were Hell-bent on killing the crew. Some might hand-wring about alleged ethical issues, but at its core, this was a story of self-preservation (and the tension in trying to exercise that right), not a parallel to colonization, base hatred of others (except a case from within--Boma's racism toward Spock--a comment about the less-than-perfect far-future Federation), or any other negative traits in the relationship between the stranded and the native population.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
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  15. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    So if aliens came here you'd have no problem with them bloodying a few noses with their superior technology?
    You know so we'd cower in the corner and leave them alone.

    Anyway I've never heard of a crow fashioning a shield or a spear head.
    I got nothing against the Galileo crew defending themselves but arbitrarily killing a lot of natives sounds like a thing Captain Tracey would do
     
  16. Scott Kellogg

    Scott Kellogg Commander Red Shirt

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    Where the h** did I say anything like advocating "arbitrarily killing a lot of natives?!?"

    You need to read what I wrote:
    " the right to defend one's self is one of those inalienable rights people talk about."

    .Aliens who came here and were attacked would have the right to defend themselves.
    If Aliens showed up and attacked, WE would have a right to defend ourselves.

    The key word is "Defend." As in when one of your guys gets a spear in the back you can fight back.

    The word "Arbitrary" and the word "Defend" aren't even on the same spectrum.
    Better go look 'em up!
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
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  17. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    So I believe the Galileo 5 (I don't include Scotty in this) were talking about finding some natives and killing them. Not waiting for the natives to come to them but seeking the natives out as they were say chatting at the waterhole and then you know murdering them - not in self-defense. Thats my take on it. Perhaps thats not what they meant. Just my interpretation of it.
     
  18. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    As near as I can tell, no natives were killed during the filming of this episode. ;)
     
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  19. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This may be the scene you're recalling - not an exact match with what you said, but some of the crew were certainly discussing the option of a targeted pre-emptive strike‎ against the natives:

    MCCOY: What do those supersensitive ears make of that, Mister Spock?
    SPOCK: Wood rubbing on some kind of leather.
    GAETANO: They're getting ready. They'll attack.
    BOMA: Not necessarily. It could be a simple tribal rite, assuming a tribal culture.
    SPOCK: Not a tribal culture. Their artefacts are too primitive. More likely a loose association of some sort.
    MEARS: If we knew more about them
    BOMA: We know enough. If they're tribal, they'll have a sense of unity. We can use that.
    SPOCK: How, Mister Boma?
    BOMA: By hitting them hard. Give them a bloody nose. Make them think twice about attacking us.
    GAETANO: Yes, I agree. If we stand by and do nothing, we're just giving them an invitation to come down and slaughter us.
    SPOCK: I'm frequently appalled by the low regard you Earthmen have for life.
    GAETANO: Well, we're practical about it. I say we hit them before they hit us.
    SPOCK: Mister Boma?
    BOMA: Absolutely.
    SPOCK: Doctor McCoy?
    MCCOY: Seems logical to me.
    SPOCK: It does, indeed. It seems logical to me, also. But to take life indiscriminately,
    GAETANO: The majority.
    SPOCK: I am not interested in the opinion of the majority, Mister Gaetano. Components must be weighed. Our danger to ourselves as well as our duties to other life forms, friendly or not. There's a third course.
    GAETANO: That could get us killed.
    SPOCK: I think not. Doctor McCoy.
    MCCOY: Yes.
    SPOCK: You and Yeoman Mears return to the ship. Assist Mister Scott in any way possible. We'll be back shortly.
    MCCOY: Right.
    (Mears and McCoy leave)
    SPOCK: Gentlemen, you'll follow my orders to the letter, firing only when so instructed, and at my designated targets.
    GAETANO: Now you're talking.
    SPOCK: We'll fire to frighten, Mister Gaetano, not to kill.
    GAETANO: Oh, for the. You saw what they did to Latimer!
    SPOCK: I am in command, Mister Gaetano. The orders and the responsibility will be mine. Follow me.​
     
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  20. Scott Kellogg

    Scott Kellogg Commander Red Shirt

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    I would point out that the conversation occurred after Latimer was killed.

    So, we're Not talking about landing on a planet and just wiping out natives indiscriminately.
    We're talking about Self Defense.

    I'm also not exactly sure how the phasers were meant to frighten the natives.
    They've never seen a phaser before. None of them were hurt by them.
    As far as they know the phasers are screeching flashlights.
     
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