The Future of "Novel-Only" Lines

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by historypeats, May 14, 2020.

  1. Damian

    Damian Commodore Commodore

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    I guess you can argue in "Regeneration" that they were basically acting on instinct and the knowledge the resurrected drones already had. Their primary goal seemed to be to set up a contact with the 'home' base in the Delta Quadrant. They had enough knowledge and abilities to do that without a 'queen'.

    When that first episode came out I wasn't sure I was going to like it. But I'll give the writers credit, they managed to do it while maintaining the continuity for the most part, and even offering a potential explanation as to how some people in the Federation, like Seven's parents, might have been aware of the Borg before "Q, Who?" (though it's certainly possible there were other hints about the Borg as well). Instead of causing a continuity glitch it actually tightened it up a bit. And since there were apparently few, if any notable, or significant contacts with the Borg for about 2 centuries the events in Enterprise, you could argue, were simply forgotten to history (and they were careful not to note the Borg directly by name in the episode as well--only we the view knew who they really were).

    And there portrayal in "Regeneration" reminded me of their depiction in "Q, Who?" which I kind of missed in other depictions.
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    If you look closely at the dialogue in "Q Who?," it's never actually stated that the Borg were unknown to the Federation. They're news to Picard, but even he can't know everything; it's a vast universe. And sure, they call a briefing where Guinan tells them what she knows, but it's never said that they didn't find any information in the computers between scenes. It just stands to reason that if they have an actual survivor on their ship, it makes sense to consult her, since she might be able to add to whatever was found in the computer account. The episode implies that they had no foreknowledge, but it doesn't make that explicit, so there's no real contradiction.
     
  3. Damian

    Damian Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, there's different ways to make it work.

    After seeing "Regenerations" I saw that there was no real contradictions. It feeds into the later episodes that show some people were aware of the Borg's existence, yet since it's 2 centuries removed it's definitely plausible that knowledge of the events of "Regeneration" may have just fell by the wayside.

    It's perfectly reasonable I think that Captain Picard and the crew were unaware of them. And it's possible they did some research on them in addition to talking to Guinan. But things moved pretty rapidly in the episode so it's possible in the heat of the action they didn't get a chance too until after they returned to the Alpha Quadrant and the danger was past.

    But I don't see any contradictions between the two. There's plenty of ways to explain how Picard and the crew were unaware of the events of "Regeneration".
     
  4. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I would love some more Kelvin novels if there isn't going to be a fourth movie. The options are literally limitless and won't have much of a chance of being contradicted onscreen, unless Pine and Quinto come back in their 70s to do a miniseries.
     
  5. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Commodore Commodore

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    Honestly, there's no need not for there not to be. The cast are hardly old.
     
  6. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Strange New Worlds novels would be fun. They don’t even need to wait for the show to start to release them
     
  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Except they do since we have no idea of who the show's cast is aside from Pike, Number One and Spock. And the show doesn't have a logo yet. And there's the coordination with the show's writing staff which is now a standard component of the novels tying in with the current shows.

    But then, you know all this but are just stubbornly expressing how you think things should be done as always.
     
  8. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You could set the novels just after the Cage when the crew is known. There’s no reason it has to be set after Discovery.
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    But that's not a Strange New Worlds tie-in, just a Pike story. Despite sharing a setting and three characters, it's still going to be a distinct show with its own style and approach.

    Besides, Pocket tried this sort of thing before with The Children of Kings, a Pike novel that was meant to get the jump on Kelvin tie-ins before enough was known about Kelvin to do a real one. And it doesn't feel at all like a Kelvin story in retrospect. Better to just wait until we know enough to make a more convincing tie-in.
     
  10. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There’s also that Discovery novel that is already a Strange New Worlds novel.
    I’ve read that Pike novel. It was pretty good I recall. I remember some parts but I don’t recall the Enterprise parts. Maybe there wasn’t any.
     
  11. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Commodore Commodore

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    “Children of Kings” even to this day still feels like an odd duck. It felt like the TOS characters were being put on the Abrams Enterprise and they were trying to combine the two universes into a third. At least with “Enterprise War” I could visualize it with all the TOS actors and sets rather than a combination of TOS characters, DISCO sets.
     
  12. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Apologies, I’m thinking of Burning Dreams. I don’t think I’ve read Children of Kings.
     
  13. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Children of Kings pretty much is a Prime TOS novel. The Enterprise as described pretty much matches The Cage, even to the point of explaining why they're using paper print-outs in The Cage, and there's a reference to Robert April commanding the Enterprise before Pike. But then the author's note in the back says he was imagining Bruce Greenwood as Pike while writing it rather than Jeffrey Hunter. Although the cover uses an image of Hunter on it.
    As already noted above, that wouldn't be an SNW novel, that would be a TOS novel. But then everyone has explained these simple concepts of licensing and branding to you multiple times, you just refuse to accept reality.
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    There are aspects in the book that reflect both continuities, and it was sort of intended as a blend of both. At that early stage, the editors weren't sure whether and how we'd do tie-ins to the new movies, so there was a tentative effort to do that kind of betwixt-and-between storytelling, books that could go either way. At one point, Marco Palmieri asked me to develop a TOS novel pitch that could be reworked to go into either continuity, since he wasn't sure yet whether we'd be doing movie tie-ins, so he wanted one ready to go if we got the nod, but that could be done as Prime TOS if we didn't. (Although a lot happened that scuttled that project, and I ended up reworking the premise into the B plot of DTI: Watching the Clock.) So I figure Kings was a similar idea, a book that you could interpret as fitting either continuity if you squinted a little. Or as a third one, since if there could be two, there could be more.

    There are elements of TCOK that don't quite fit Prime continuity, like cloaking devices being in use a decade before "Balance of Terror," and Ferengi being known in the 2250s. But there are things that don't fit Kelvin either, like the April reference (although the Countdown to Darkness comic postulated an earlier Enterprise that April commanded). So I tend to go for the "third continuity" interpretation.
     
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  15. WebLurker

    WebLurker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Started to read it, but lost interest early on. Was really surprised to see that it was supposed to be a Kelvin book, given the TOS cover and learning that nothing in it really fit what the movies were doing. Putting that note that it was ostensibly Kelvin at the end seemed really odd; that's kinda important info to know.

    If you're referring to the Enterprise War, that is all DSC, not TOS or SNW; despite being about Pike and the Enterprise, it's plot is completely tied into DSC (the premise is "what was the Enterprise doing during the Klingon war?") and helps set up DSC season 2. It may be of interest to TOS fans and future SNW fans due to the subject matter, but it's nothing but a DSC tie-in. (Heck, Pike and company were regulars on DSC anyways.)
     
  16. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Commodore Commodore

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    I liked The Enterprise War.

    It felt very TOS but if TOS had an unlimited budget.
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Again: It was not supposed to be a Kelvin book. It was intentionally ambiguous whether it fit in either timeline or a unique timeline of its own, because it was written at a time when plans about Pocket's approach to the new movie continuity were up in the air. The writers and editors weren't yet sure whether we'd continue doing classic-continuity books, switch entirely to the new universe, or do both side-by-side. And the writers didn't yet know that much about the new movie continuity. But we still had to put something out, so there was a brief flirtation with doing stuff that was ambiguous and could go either way, or go its own way with little regard for continuity. After all, if there could be two timelines, there could be more.
     
  18. Damian

    Damian Commodore Commodore

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    Wasn't that the book where the author even noted in his acknowledgments that he tried imagining Greenwood in the role yet he kept finding himself thinking of Hunter.

    Ambiguous is probably the right word for what they were going for. I took it to mean how a prime timeline story would look, but with the Abramsverse actors and 'atmosphere' (for lack of a better word).

    But at the end of the day I recall when I read that book I defaulted to seeing it through the eyes of "The Cage". In the beginning I tried to imagine it with Bruce Greenwood but it just didn't work because other than Pike and Spock, all the other characters were consistent with "The Cage" and we never saw their counterparts in Star Trek (2009). I eventually just settled on viewing it through how they were originally portrayed.

    I really liked that book as well. And funny aside with that is since I don't stream I have to wait for Blu-Ray to see Discovery. That book had come out before the Blu-Ray of season 2, and I read it before seeing season 2. I really had no frame of reference for how the Enterprise and its characters might appear in Discovery so for much of the book I actually saw it through the eyes of "The Cage" as well. That's all I had. I mean, I knew Anson Mount played Pike, but I never really saw him as Pike yet so it wasn't relatable for me at that time (the only things I saw through the Discovery lens were characters only seen in Discovery like the Admiral). And it actually worked in a way as an original series story. I didn't find any problems seeing the ship and crew as they appeared in "The Cage". Storywise it is the same universe anyway, and set design, well, that's all in the imagination when reading a book anyway.

    Also, I'll add, I actually felt at an advantage reading the book before seeing season 2. First, the book took place before season 2 anyway. And when I saw what Spock was going through having read the novel it added some depth and deeper reasoning to the difficulties he was having. It also gave a bit of depth to Pike as well.
     
  19. Stevil2001

    Stevil2001 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I really liked The Children of Kings. One of the things that distinguishes Stern from your average Star Trek tie-in writer is that he has a strong ability to create atmosphere and tone-- there's a moody, dark feeling to this book (and to his first Enterprise novel, What Price Honor?), that I really liked.
     
  20. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It looks like we might be getting our first glimpse of what the post-Picard and Lower Decks novels might look like.
    They've officially announced the two new books teased back at one of the online conventions earlier this year.
    They are Revenant by Alex R. White, a DS9 novel focused on Jadzia Dax and Kira Nerys, and Shadows Have Offended by Casandra Rose Clarke, a TNG novel focused on Beverly Crusher, Deanna Troi, and Worf, set during Season 7.
    I know a lot of people are probably going to take this as another sign of the death of the Novelverse, but I'm still optimistic, there are still 10 months for other books next year.