The Franklin and the NX Program

[Syd Shanshala]

In the ENT episode first flight, when Forrest tells Archer the NX program has been put on hold indefinitely after AG's failed warp 2 test, he mentions starfleet has decided to design a new engine from scratch, independent from Henry Archers design. Could this be what eventually becomes the Franklin's engine, developed alongside the NX's by a different contractor, but only ever able to achieve warp 4? Could be why starfleet went with the NX warp 5 engine for their flagship, but assimilated the Franklin into their registery later when needed.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Those plans to develop a new warp engine from scratch were probably dropped when Robinson and company proved that Henry Archer's engine wasn't a dud and the NX Program could continue rather than start all over with something else that would have taken decades longer--like the Vulcans would have wanted.

 

[Ithekro]

Could have just been a competing engine design. Having more that one of something in the works is not unusual for improvements in existing technology, or even new technology when there is a need for it given out by a government.

See just about any military project competition in the Army and Navy as well as design competitions for aircraft and missile between companies.

Also electricity. Railroads. Cars. Computers. Phones. Lot and lots of things have two or more parallel developments. Sometimes more that one of these are a success, but one eventually takes over the other over time, or both are superseded by a successor project.

 

[Timo]

Since nothing hints at the Franklin being a Franklin class vessel, yet it's heavily suggested (that is, stated outright, but we can wiggle) that this individual ship rather than the first ship in the class achieved the early speed record, are we perhaps to think that ships of this class were built for some different role altogether but one unit was found surplus and assigned superengine testing duty?

This might be an ongoing theme: when we finally meet the ship, she's UFP Starfleet property, and sports an NX registry despite not being new. So supposedly her engines again are (because what other system could it be, when we get dialogue on weapons, sensors, transporters and protection and it's all unremarkable or antiquated even for 2161?).

Indeed, it seems unlikely that her looks in ST Beyond would tell us anything about the looks of the engines that originally broke Warp Four.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

Or maybe it was a backwards ripple of the Kelvin Timeline and didn't exist in ENT's universe.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

In the early days of jet propulsion the US had about two dozen first generation jet fighters. Most of these weren’t experimental or competing designs but aircraft that were developed, manufactured and served concurrently with varied levels of success:
P-59 Airacomet, P-80 Shooting Star, FH-1 Phantom, FR-1 Fireball, FJ-1 Fury, F-84 Thunderjet, F9F Panther, F-84F Thunderstreak, F-86 Sabre, F-89 Scorpion, F-94 Starfire, RF-84F Thunderflash, F2H Banshee, FJ-2/-3 Fury, F3H Demon, F3D Skyknight, FJ-4 Fury, F6U Pirate, F9F Cougar, F7U Cutlass...
I suspect something similar could be true in the early era of Earth Starfleet’s warp designs.

 

[pst]

Or maybe it was a backwards ripple of the Kelvin Timeline and didn't exist in ENT's universe.

yeah i mean, as demonstrated by admiral marcus' display in star trek into darkness, the NX-alpha and NX-class existed in the kelvin timeline in the same form as they did in the prime universe, but pegg and co have retroactively told us the kelvin timeline is a new universe from the big bang forward, so the franklin-type could exist anywhere in there.

 

[gerbil]

yeah i mean, as demonstrated by admiral marcus' display in star trek into darkness, the NX-alpha and NX-class existed in the kelvin timeline in the same form as they did in the prime universe, but pegg and co have retroactively told us the kelvin timeline is a new universe from the big bang forward, so the franklin-type could exist anywhere in there.

He wasn’t saying that to completely rewrite canon, though. He was saying that to leave it up in the air that some things could be different and fans might spot things here and there that might be contrary to what we’ve already seen. The NX program clearly existed.

The Franklin was probably a competing or companion program to the NX. That’s how the real world works. I don’t see why we should expect the Star Trek universe to be wildly different.

 

[pst]

He wasn’t saying that to completely rewrite canon, though. He was saying that to leave it up in the air that some things could be different and fans might spot things here and there that might be contrary to what we’ve already seen. The NX program clearly existed.

The Franklin was probably a competing or companion program to the NX. That’s how the real world works. I don’t see why we should expect the Star Trek universe to be wildly different.

i guess my point was that trying to fit the franklin into a design lineage or sequence of events is handicapped by the fact that we're basing our information from the prime universe.

if the kelvin timeline is a brand new universe from the ground up, the elements that did occur from enterprise may have played out entirely differently. the franklin may not have even existed in the prime universe.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

if the kelvin timeline is a brand new universe from the ground up, the elements that did occur from enterprise may have played out entirely differently. the franklin may not have even existed in the prime universe.

This is my belief as well. Everything from the Kelvin films (and I mean everything, from the Kelvin to the Franklin) belongs exclusively to the Kelvin Universe. Of course I’m not entirely sure that ENT belongs to the Prime universe either, but that’s another discussion altogether.

 

[Timo]

OTOH, there's no particular need to assume any such part of Trek would belong to another continuity.

In the early days of jet propulsion the US had about two dozen first generation jet fighters. Most of these weren’t experimental or competing designs but aircraft that were developed, manufactured and served concurrently with varied levels of success. I suspect something similar could be true in the early era of Earth Starfleet’s warp designs.

Early UESF? It seems to be true of late UFP Starfleet as well...

USAF has become relatively less wealthy with time, as the relative price of aircraft keeps skyrocketing; it simply cannot afford "parallel planes" any more (although having the Navy means there'll always be some). This need not be true of Starfleet.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Early UESF? It seems to be true of late UFP Starfleet as well...

USAF has become relatively less wealthy with time, as the relative price of aircraft keeps skyrocketing; it simply cannot afford "parallel planes" any more (although having the Navy means there'll always be some). This need not be true of Starfleet.

True. Advanced technologies, climaxing aircraft prices and modern budgets, not only mean that the USAF and USN doesn’t need obsolete types (like night-fighters or interceptors) but that they also have to rely on the 2-type “Hi-Lo mix” force structure to fulfill their mission profiles.
Exactly the opposite is applied in UFP Starfleet. In late 24th century we’ve seen or heard about dozens or hundreds of different ship classes.

 

[gerbil]

i guess my point was that trying to fit the franklin into a design lineage or sequence of events is handicapped by the fact that we're basing our information from the prime universe.

if the kelvin timeline is a brand new universe from the ground up, the elements that did occur from enterprise may have played out entirely differently. the franklin may not have even existed in the prime universe.

There’s nothing that necessitates the Kelvin Timeline being different from the Prime Timeline.

Something that the KT films actually do fairly well is present the Star Trek universe as a fairly diverse ecosystem. DS9 and ENT do that pretty well, too. DSC is well on its way to establishing the same. Everything we see in TOS and TNG is homogenized. They’re Starfleet, through and through.

ENT showed us the frontier ships that existed before Starfleet set the rules. Just because we never saw things before doesn’t mean they weren’t there. We saw a very limited perspective. Now we’re seeing more and more.