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I think the theory savitar is actually Future Flash makes a great deal of sense. At one point Savitar via Julian told everyone "I am the future Flash". At first I thought it came across as "I am the future, Flash" but now thinking it was actually "I am the Future Flash"
Plus it would explain how Savitar knew so much about the team and how he knew Jay. It would also explain how Savitar knew of Flashpoint. Because so far Barry was the only one who retained memories of flashpoint--since Barry was the time traveler creating that new timeline.
So it would seem there was the original timeline then the Flashpoint timeline Barry created when he saved his mom then yet another timeline--the one Barry created when he tried to restore the original timeline by letting Reverse Flash kill his mother. Then the timeline we've been watching all season--the timeline where Barry tried restoring the original Timeline by letting thawne kill his mother but also Future Barry from the third timeline tries yet again to restore Flashpoint by traveling to the past restoring as much of what it as he can ie the metas like Wally
I think the theory savitar is actually Future Flash makes a great deal of sense. At one point Savitar via Julian told everyone "I am the future Flash". At first I thought it came across as "I am the future, Flash" but now thinking it was actually "I am the Future Flash"
I disagree. The episode already establishes that Savatar is a human from like 3000 BC who became the first speedster when he grabbed the Philosopher's Stone. Plus why would future Flash want to kill his past self?
I disagree. The episode already establishes that Savatar is a human from like 3000 BC who became the first speedster when he grabbed the Philosopher's Stone. Plus why would future Flash want to kill his past self?
I took it as backstory on Savatar's origin not speculation. But who knows at this point? Savatar does say that he wants revenge on Barry for trapping him in the Speed Force so I am not sure it makes sense for Savatar to be Future Flash. He wants revenge on himself?
Barry has a history of blaming himself just look no further than this season or last season maybe forty years later future Barry blames Barry for something bad that takes place for mucking with flashpoint
Barry has a history of blaming himself just look no further than this season or last season maybe forty years later future Barry blames Barry for something bad that takes place for mucking with flashpoint
True. There is also the element that Savatar desires worshipers because he sees himself as the god of speed. If Savatar is Future Flash that would mean that Future Flash literally gets a god complex and starts demanding that people worship him. That would seem odd to me. Sorry. I am still not convinced with the Future Flash Theory.
Wally getting an official "Kid Flash" suit felt quite incongruous given how strongly everybody was opposing him "suiting up" earlier in the episode and how much of a tongue lashing that Joe gave H.R. for "enabling" him, but I guess it is what it is.
It's not incongruous, it's a story arc. Yes, they were opposed at first and criticized HR, but HR pushed back and reminded them that they'd just drive Wally further away if they continued to refuse to support him, plus Wally helped save Barry without getting himself killed in the process, so they changed their minds.
I'm not really sure why Caitlin decided that using her powers to turn rain into snow was okay when she was adamant about never using them again, but I guess they felt like they needed to emphasize the Christmas theme of the episode by having a "White Christmas".
Again, story arc. Maybe Caitlin's conversation with Stein last week gave her more confidence that she could cope with the power, and that her friends would be there to keep her from slipping again.
I don't quite know exactly how I feel about John Wesley Shipp's version of Jay Garrick given that I haven't yet seen the concluding episodes of Season 2 in which he's first introduced, although I do like the relationship that he and Barry have and the way that he's able to serve as a mentor for Barry in a way that nobody else in his life can.
I think we got a lot more of Jay here than we did back then. He was kind of a surprise reveal in the closing minutes of the finale.
Barry revealing his secret to Julian was pretty predictable, but, as I noted, I like that it ended up working out in the end with him showing up at the Wests' house for their Christmas party.
Well, Barry isn't a secretive loner by nature. His first impulse is to reach out and recruit allies. We saw that last week when he brought the whole hero community together to tackle the Dominators -- and now we've seen two episodes in a row where he crossed to a parallel universe to get help from an "out-of-town" hero. So it was in character that he'd make a gesture of trust toward Julian like this.
I thought the writing was a little too stilted, with the Trickster entering and narrating his actions to the camera, basically. And what he said about saying he'd let the people inside live, but tricking them -- did that mean he'd already killed them? Or that he was about to kill them? If the latter, how did the Flashes stop him from doing so? The hostages/whatever were just mentioned in passing and then ignored.
But I liked it that the action scene involved Jay using his helmet. It helped justify what, to modern eyes, is a pretty odd costuming choice.
The fight scene with Savatar was intense. When Savatar was beating the crap out of Jay, it looked super painful.
Yeah, but that was impeded by the video-gamey look of the whole thing. I'm generally pretty tolerant of VFX that are less than photorealistic -- because I grew up in the '70s and '80s so that was pretty much the only option I had -- but I'm starting to feel this show is getting too dependent on the big, lengthy, swoopy-camera CGI action sequences, and the character animation in those sequences seems to be getting more rubbery and puppety.
We get lots of backstory on Julian and Savatar. As others have stated, I really like that Julian is not a one dimensional villain. In fact, I find Julian very sympathetic. He's not a bad guy at heart. He just got used by the Philosopher's Stone.
I have to admit, I totally missed the Harry Potter in-joke with Tom Felton and the Philosopher's Stone. I was puzzled by the use of a term from European alchemy for an Indian artifact, but I figured it was just more Western cultural appropriation.
I disagree. The episode already establishes that Savatar is a human from like 3000 BC who became the first speedster when he grabbed the Philosopher's Stone. Plus why would future Flash want to kill his past self?
As I said in my post last night, this is probably based on a storyline from the comics where future Barry did come back to kill his past self because of a rift he'd created in the Speed Force, which could only be closed by his death. In this case, though, Savitar told Barry that he was seeking revenge for Barry taking his life from him -- making me wonder if he's a time remnant of the Flash from the original pre-Flashpoint timeline.
Hey, here's a thought:
Given that this episode made a point of reminding us of the Flash's disappearance in the "Crisis" 8 years from now, maybe that's a clue. What if that future Flash disappeared to become Savitar?
I'm not really sure why Caitlin decided that using her powers to turn rain into snow was okay when she was adamant about never using them again, but I guess they felt like they needed to emphasize the Christmas theme of the episode by having a "White Christmas".
I thought the characters were going to wave to the camera and say "Merry Christmas, everybody!". But really It was a nice to see a little happy holiday ending. I liked that Barry seemed more interested in making the most of the present than to try to fix the future.
Well, Barry isn't a secretive loner by nature. His first impulse is to reach out and recruit allies. We saw that last week when he brought the whole hero community together to tackle the Dominators
I would add that Barry seeking allies rather than trying to fix things alone shows a growth and maturity in the character. He is no longer the Flash of season 1 who thought he could just run off and fix things by himself.
Yeah, but that was impeded by the video-gamey look of the whole thing. I'm generally pretty tolerant of VFX that are less than photorealistic -- because I grew up in the '70s and '80s so that was pretty much the only option I had -- but I'm starting to feel this show is getting too dependent on the big, lengthy, swoopy-camera CGI action sequences, and the character animation in those sequences seems to be getting more rubbery and puppety.
I will concede that the CGI does look pretty bad in several of the big action set pieces. The scenes did look like a video game from 10 years ago. It kinda takes you out of the moment.
Hey, here's a thought:
Given that this episode made a point of reminding us of the Flash's disappearance in the "Crisis" 8 years from now, maybe that's a clue. What if that future Flash disappeared to become Savitar?
I'm starting to think that they've got to be running out of evil speedsters by now, and three evil-speedster arch-nemeses in a row is getting repetitive. I understand why it's hard to come up with opponents for the Flash who aren't also able to move really fast, but there must be some other direction they can go for next season's big bad. How about Abra Kadabra? Future technology masquerading as magic should be able to pose a challenge for Team Flash. Or, given how heavy their use of CGI is these days, maybe they could do Grodd as a season-long big bad rather than just an occasional guest star. Indeed, they wouldn't even need to rely too heavily on CGI, since his mind-control powers could let him operate largely from behind the scenes.
It's too bad they've never really brought the Rogues together as a major villain team, instead doing them piecemeal. A team headlined by Weather Wizard and Mirror Master, say, could pose a pretty big challenge for the Flash.
I'm starting to think that they've got to be running out of evil speedsters by now, and three evil-speedster arch-nemeses in a row is getting repetitive. I understand why it's hard to come up with opponents for the Flash who aren't also able to move really fast, but there must be some other direction they can go for next season's big bad. How about Abra Kadabra? Future technology masquerading as magic should be able to pose a challenge for Team Flash. Or, given how heavy their use of CGI is these days, maybe they could do Grodd as a season-long big bad rather than just an occasional guest star. Indeed, they wouldn't even need to rely too heavily on CGI, since his mind-control powers could let him operate largely from behind the scenes.
Yeah, the evil speedster villain is getting a bit repetitive at this point. And clearly having multiple speedsters on the show is taxing their CGI budget. It would be a nice change of pace to have a non-speedster villain.
It's too bad they've never really brought the Rogues together as a major villain team, instead doing them piecemeal. A team headlined by Weather Wizard and Mirror Master, say, could pose a pretty big challenge for the Flash.
Maybe they could do the Rogues from a parallel universe especially since alternate earths seems to be a running theme on the show? That could be interesting. And I agree that having a team of villains actually working together could be a good new threat for the Flash.
I rewatched the scene where the Flash was thrown into the future, as my wife made me miss that part of the episode for an app on our iphones.
I'm starting to think Jay has secrets. He didn't seem....shocked or anything about Barry's experience witnessing Iris' death in the future. I think he knows a lot more than he shows. I think he had really fucked up Earth 3's timeline when he was younger.
I think the theory savitar is actually Future Flash makes a great deal of sense. At one point Savitar via Julian told everyone "I am the future Flash". At first I thought it came across as "I am the future, Flash" but now thinking it was actually "I am the Future Flash"
Plus it would explain how Savitar knew so much about the team and how he knew Jay. It would also explain how Savitar knew of Flashpoint. Because so far Barry was the only one who retained memories of flashpoint--since Barry was the time traveler creating that new timeline.
So it would seem there was the original timeline then the Flashpoint timeline Barry created when he saved his mom then yet another timeline--the one Barry created when he tried to restore the original timeline by letting Reverse Flash kill his mother. Then the timeline we've been watching all season--the timeline where Barry tried restoring the original Timeline by letting thawne kill his mother but also Future Barry from the third timeline tries yet again to restore Flashpoint by traveling to the past restoring as much of what it as he can ie the metas like Wally
I'm starting to think that they've got to be running out of evil speedsters by now, and three evil-speedster arch-nemeses in a row is getting repetitive. I understand why it's hard to come up with opponents for the Flash who aren't also able to move really fast, but there must be some other direction they can go for next season's big bad. How about Abra Kadabra? Future technology masquerading as magic should be able to pose a challenge for Team Flash. Or, given how heavy their use of CGI is these days, maybe they could do Grodd as a season-long big bad rather than just an occasional guest star. Indeed, they wouldn't even need to rely too heavily on CGI, since his mind-control powers could let him operate largely from behind the scenes.
It's too bad they've never really brought the Rogues together as a major villain team, instead doing them piecemeal. A team headlined by Weather Wizard and Mirror Master, say, could pose a pretty big challenge for the Flash.
Good point. I got the impression the Flash was the only one who could really hurt Supergirl last week, as that scene implies Barry would be able to phase into Kara's body......
Good point. I got the impression the Flash was the only one who could really hurt Supergirl last week, as that scene implies Barry would be able to phase into Kara's body......
But seriously, so what if he could phase through her? She's just as invulnerable inside as out. If he, I dunno, tried that Reverse Flash trick of phasing his hand through her heart, he'd probably just lose his arm.
^I was comparing to how the whole bunch of them were throwing their abilities or tricks at her when they were practicing. She was just hovering up there laughing as if it felt good. Kara probably wouldn't if Barry phased his hand into Kara's torso even if she was going to survive it....
But if Barry "phased" at the right frequency, he may have hurt her. All he has to do is simply hold her heart. He doesn't have to actually damage or crush it. Just enough to have the heartbeat off for a moment would incapacitate her. Kara isn't a god.
But if Barry "phased" at the right frequency, he may have hurt her. All he has to do is simply hold her heart. He doesn't have to actually damage or crush it. Just enough to have the heartbeat off for a moment would incapacitate her. Kara isn't a god.
The heart is a muscle. It's as strong as the rest of her muscles. Having Barry "hold" it with all his strength would be about as useless as having him arm-wrestle her.
Yeah, the evil speedster villain is getting a bit repetitive at this point. And clearly having multiple speedsters on the show is taxing their CGI budget. It would be a nice change of pace to have a non-speedster villain.
The heart is a muscle. It's as strong as the rest of her muscles. Having Barry "hold" it with all his strength would be about as useless as having him arm-wrestle her.
If he can put his finger inside one of the valves or two and disrupts the blood flow- the strength of the heart muscle doesn't matter. One thing I always wondered about Hunter/Zoom putting his hand in someone's torso to help save last year...I think it was Cisco, was how did he know where to put his fingers, etc. Feeling around without actually touching those things shouldn't be enough as there are so much shit inside one's body- membranes, tissues, nerves, veins and all that- try do a dissection in a bio lab without dyed organs....
At least in this ep, he served to nudge Joe West to see Wally's potential. In previous episodes, he just annoyingly repeated what other characters had just said.
I hope they further explore H.R.'s personality. This is a guy who basically faked being a genius and then learns that his alternate Earth dopplegangers are real geniuses. That has to be messing with his self-worth on some level. Why is he different? Could he actually be a genius but never followed-through on his education? [And that doesn't even get into his learning that at least one very successful alternate Wells has a genius speedster daughter.]
