Spoilers The Flash - Season 2

[kirk55555]

I and it seems many other viewers, disagree. The death of Barry's mom has weighed on him since the show began. Nwhe seems able to move on. That's a significant development for Barry. Now you might find how it happened to be boring or too talky, but to say it didn't move Barry's character forward would be wrong.

I just don't agree. He talked to a fake mother for a bit, and read a stupid book. Its like when Sisko talked to his Mom in prophet form, but at least she was actually kind of his Mom. Barry's stuff with his Fake Mom was just stupid and pointless, like every other speed force scene. He didn't "move on" from anything. If he has moved on from his mother's death death, it was when he traveled back in time but decided not to save her from dying. It wasn't because the Speed Force watched too much Dr. Phil and tried some reality show style "therapy" on Barry.

 

[sojourner]

And yet, at the end of this episode is when he can finally visit his mother's grave. Hmmm, I wonder why he's able to do that now?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Judging by one of the lines in the trailer for the next episode, Barry seems to have found religion: "The Speed Force is with us, how can we lose?"

"The Speed Force is strong in this one."

"The Speed Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded."

"I sensed a great disturbance in the Speed Force...as if millions of legs were running and suddenly stood still."

 

[kirk55555]

And yet, at the end of this episode is when he can finally visit his mother's grave. Hmmm, I wonder why he's able to do that now?

Because Barry visiting his mother's grave, something I'm pretty sure we didn't know he hadn't done prior to this episode, is relevant? Was that why he keeps losing to Zoom, because Zoom always runs past Barry's mother's grave when they race/fight and that causes Barry to slow down and detour around it? If that's not the case, him visiting a grave doesn't mean anything. Like I said, the Doctor Phil routine gave reality show results that aren't relevant to the character. That's like if Henry Allen had a weird experience, and then out of nowhere said "Now, after what I've been through, I can finally summon the courage to wear white after labor day". Something we never established he hadn't/couldn't do, and doesn't matter anyway, makes about as much of an impact as Barry's stuff. Sure, maybe the show mentioned (before this episode) that Barry hadn't visited the grave (I don't think it did, but they might have mentioned it and I just forgot), but its really inconsequential either way. Definitely not a character changing moment.

 

[sojourner]

something I'm pretty sure we didn't know he hadn't done prior to this episode, is relevant?

You mean like when he mentions to Iris, standing beside him at the grave, that he hadn't been able to bring himself to visit it before? Always making excuses whenever Joe tried to get him too?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

He talked to a fake mother for a bit, and read a stupid book.

There's something broken inside you, man.

"Once there was a little dinosaur called a Maiasaur, who lived with his mother. One day, he told his mother, 'I wish I were special like the other dinosaurs. If I were a T. rex, I could chomp with my ferocious teeth!' 'But if you were a T. rex,' said his mother, 'how would you hug me with your tiny little arms?'"

"'I wish I were an Apatosaurus,' said the little dinosaur, 'so with my long neck I could see high above the treetops.' 'But if you were an Apatosaurus,' said his mother, 'how would you hear me in the treetops when I told you I love you?

What makes you so special, little Maiasaur?' said his mother. 'Is it your ferocious teeth or long neck or pointy beak? What makes you special is out of all of the different dinosaurs in the big, wide world, you have the mother who is just right for you and who will always'"... "'Love you.'"

 

[Zombie Cheerleader]

Because Barry visiting his mother's grave, something I'm pretty sure we didn't know he hadn't done prior to this episode, is relevant? Was that why he keeps losing to Zoom, because Zoom always runs past Barry's mother's grave when they race/fight and that causes Barry to slow down and detour around it? If that's not the case, him visiting a grave doesn't mean anything. Like I said, the Doctor Phil routine gave reality show results that aren't relevant to the character. That's like if Henry Allen had a weird experience, and then out of nowhere said "Now, after what I've been through, I can finally summon the courage to wear white after labor day". Something we never established he hadn't/couldn't do, and doesn't matter anyway, makes about as much of an impact as Barry's stuff. Sure, maybe the show mentioned (before this episode) that Barry hadn't visited the grave (I don't think it did, but they might have mentioned it and I just forgot), but its really inconsequential either way. Definitely not a character changing moment.

Barry's problems coming to term with his mother's death has been an on going theme of the show since it started. So I'm not sure what your point is. Visiting the grave is a visual way to getting across the point that Barry has moved on. It's even a common trope in fiction when a character needs be shown dealing with death. It really doesn't matter how many times the grave has been shown, because most people get the symbolism.

 

[Christopher]

Look, mother Maiasaur, it's cool that you want to make your kid feel empowered, but you can do it without body-shaming the T. rexes and Apatosaurs, okay?

 

[kirk55555]

You mean like when he mentions to Iris, standing beside him at the grave, that he hadn't been able to bring himself to visit it before? Always making excuses whenever Joe tried to get him too?

It was never mentioned before this episode. They didn't establish that he couldn't visit the grave before the episode where he gets over his problem and can now visit the grave. I'm pretty sure him not visiting his mother's grave hasn't been effecting his speed, or his activities as the Flash or his relationships with other characters. It had no point, except that the hack writer wanted some "emotion"

There's something broken inside you, man.

That stuff was lame, pandering, and creepy. Its not even a good bit of writing for what it is, and having barry get teary eyed while saying it while talking to the speed force, not his actual mother, just made it worse.

Barry's problems coming to term with his mother's death has been an on going theme of the show since it started. So I'm not sure what your point is. Visiting the grave is a visual way to getting across the point that Barry has moved on. It even a common trope in fiction when a character need be shown dealing with death. It really doesn't matter how many times the grave has been shown, because most people get the symbolism.

To me, it felt like they were trying for an emotional moment that they didn't earn. That was a problem with the script though, to be clear. Grant Gustin did a great job with what he got this episode. Having the worst written episode of the show really didn't help him, though.

Also, yeah, Barry dealing with his Mom's death has been a theme. Its also completely unrelated to anything happening in the plot, and there is no reason for the speed force to know or care about it. The grave adds nothing but some stupid "sad" scenes the writer shoved in that didn't even work, at least not for me.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

That stuff was lame, pandering, and creepy. Its not even a good bit of writing for what it is, and having barry get teary eyed while saying it while talking to the speed force, not his actual mother, just made it worse.

But it's clearly something that actually happened between him and his mother, so it's essentially like watching an elaborate home movie, albeit as screened by The Prophets. If I could be in an interactive home movie of a happy moment between me and my Mom who passed away six years ago, it would make me teary eyed too.

Having the worst written episode of the show really didn't help him, though.

I'd love to see you grading papers. Everything would be all A+'s or F's, with absolutely no middle ground in between. You get an A+ for hyperbole, by the way, because you're by far the biggest exaggerator in the history of Earth.

Calling something "the worst" sort of loses its effectiveness when you call everything you don't like the worst thing that's ever happened.

 

[Zombie Cheerleader]

To me, it felt like they were trying for an emotional moment that they didn't earn. That was a problem with the script though, to be clear. Grant Gustin did a great job with what he got this episode. Having the worst written episode of the show really didn't help him, though.

Also, yeah, Barry dealing with his Mom's death has been a theme. Its also completely unrelated to anything happening in the plot, and there is no reason for the speed force to know or care about it. The grave adds nothing but some stupid "sad" scenes the writer shoved in that didn't even work, at least not for me.

You seem to be alone on the quality of the script and the talent of the writer. Since the show is about Barry, I'd say it was very related to the overall plot of the show. The plot of the episode is about Barry regaining his speed and that was related to various personal problems, such as his mother's death and his relationship with Iris. The speed force knows all. Or maybe Barry does

 

[Guy Gardener]

Barry was crying because 1 year ago, he obeyed his older self to let his mother die.

Before that he was just a witness.

Now he's an active culpable participant in her death.

 

[Snaploud]

I and it seems many other viewers, disagree. The death of Barry's mom has weighed on him since the show began. Nwhe seems able to move on. That's a significant development for Barry. Now you might find how it happened to be boring or too talky, but to say it didn't move Barry's character forward would be wrong.

I agree. It's also a good counterpoint to his earlier worries that he would never really be happy (something Eobard claimed about Barry in his video confession).

 

[kirk55555]

You seem to be alone on the quality of the script and the talent of the writer. Since the show is about Barry, I'd say it was very related to the overall plot of the show. The plot of the episode is about Barry regaining his speed and that was related to various personal problems, such as his mother's death and his relationship with Iris. The speed force knows all. Or maybe Barry does

The Flash does not get his speed from Speed Force Prophets, and his self esteem/mental state does not effect his powers either. At least, not in a real Flash story. Also, Barry didn't lose his powers because he hadn't visited a tombstone. He lost his powers because of Zoom. A never before explained aversion to seeing his Mom's grave had nothing to do with anything. This was a very Berlanti style story, all pointless soap opera. I bet the writer was really looking to impress Berlanti, and considering how garbage the Speed Force stuff is, and the fact that he's coming back next season, I'm sure he did.

Also, I have no idea what Barry's relationship with Iris has to do with anything. They're friends and kind of siblings. They certainly have no romantic relationship, because Greg Berlanti won't allow characters to get together with the love interests they have in the comics. Oliver wasn't with Laurel, Barry isn't with Iris and even Hawkgirl chose someone besides Hawkman. It was ridiculous how Iris was apparently the one to "call Barry home", when Henry or Joe both have stronger relationships with Barry.

I'd love to see you grading papers. Everything would be all A+'s or F's, with absolutely no middle ground in between. You get an A+ for hyperbole, by the way, because you're by far the biggest exaggerator in the history of Earth.

Calling something "the worst" sort of loses its effectiveness when you call everything you don't like the worst thing that's ever happened.

I have never hated any part of this show more than the Speed Force stuff. The SF prophets were just terrible, the interactions were cringe worthy, and Barry came off looking like an idiot. Its all down to the writer, who so obviously pulled everything out of thin air its painful. Maybe he should have watched some Flash episodes before writing one, and maybe looked at the wikipedia page for both Flash and the Speed Force Hopefully we'll never see the Speed Force aliens again, although I know that's not going to happen. Berlanti will not let such an obvious soap opera story hook just go away.

 

[sojourner]

and his self esteem/mental state does not effect his powers either. At least, not in a real Flash story.

You've obviously never read the Wally West run of the Flash.

 

[kirk55555]

You've obviously never read the Wally West run of the Flash.

Huh, I didn't know I was watching an adaptation of Wally West's Flash. I guess I'm just confused, since I didn't see Mark Waid name as writer Also, that's not exactly a comic to emulate, especially when it comes to how it portrayed the Speed Force. Waid is a decent writer a lot of the time, but when it comes to the speed force, that whole era went way to metaphysical and nonsensical.

 

[sojourner]

But, but, they're real Flash stories!!! By your own statement that's the ruler we should be using to judge the writing on the show!!!

 

[Zombie Cheerleader]

Huh, I didn't know I was watching an adaptation of Wally West's Flash. I guess I'm just confused, since I didn't see Mark Waid name as writer Also, that's not exactly a comic to emulate, especially when it comes to how it portrayed the Speed Force. Waid is a decent writer a lot of the time, but when it comes to the speed force, that whole era went way to metaphysical and nonsensical.

Didn't Waid invent the Speed Force? There was no Speed Force in the Silver Age. The show is an adaptation of the Flash, that's everything from Flash Comics in the 40s to the modern day. So if they want to pull from the Wally era they can. They're not limited to Barry stories.

 

[kirk55555]

Didn't Waid invent the Speed Force? There was no Speed Force in the Silver Age. The show is an adaptation of the Flash, that's everything from Flash Comics in the 40s to the modern day. So if they want to pull from the Wally era they want. .

He might have, I can't find the info. He was still very obnoxious with his use of it, regardless. also, the show really doesn't use anything from the 40s Flash except a name and a costume. Plus, I'm pretty sure Wally never lost or was stopped from regaining speed powers because he didn't visit a grave, or had terrible self esteem. If he did, well that was Waid being Waid. Barry and Jay certainly never had that problem.

 

[Commander Richard]

Barry needed to do the impossible. He needed to catch that moving phantom. In order to do that he had to clear his head so that he could act quickly and spontaneously, which he did. That's what it was all about. He became a true speedster instead of just an accident or something that resulted from a formula. He's really the Flash now, better than ever. The embodiment of speed.