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Spoilers The Flash - Season 2

Guy Gardener said:
There were two speedsters on Earth 2.

Zoom was faster than Jay.

Zoom defeated jay constantly.

There was no question that Zoom was the best.

Then comes the breach.

And Barry.

Barry is slower than Zoom and Jay is powerless.

Zoom is the best.

So why is he picking on the silver medalist?
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Because people who don't know any better keep calling Barry the fastest man alive? The thing about wanting to be the best is that it's not worth anything if it isn't openly acknowledged...

But, yeah, the whole thing is still kind of unclear. Zoom at this point is still 100% in the cliched bad guy territory - all bite, no explanation.
 
Barry has the potential to be faster than he usually is. He keeps saying "I've never gone that fast" whenever he's asked to pull off a new trick, but he implicitly ran faster than light when he travelled back in time a day WITHOUT the particle accelerator to help him. His issue is his self-doubt. If Zoom can't kill him, the next best thing is to convince him he's second-rate. Which is exactly what Thawne was doing in their S1 fights - he needed Barry to be fast enough to hit Mach 2 to create the wormhole, but not fast enough he could conceivably beat him in a fight.

I'm convinced it wasn't just impatience that lead Thawne to create the Flash seven years earlier than it would have happened in the original timeline. A more adult, self-confident Barry - maybe having even become head of the Central City CSI division before he even GOT his powers? - would have fewer doubts. Fewer limits. He'd be the Barry that Thawne couldn't beat, instead of the one he curbstomped every time they faced off.
 
matthunter said:
Barry has the potential to be faster than he usually is. He keeps saying "I've never gone that fast" whenever he's asked to pull off a new trick, but he implicitly ran faster than light when he travelled back in time a day WITHOUT the particle accelerator to help him.
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A beam of light would take about 1/70 of a second to cross the continental United States. Barry was running for quite a few seconds and never left Central City. No way was he anywhere remotely close to the speed of light.

Heck, if he ran faster than 8 km/s, he'd go into orbit. That's something that comics about the Flash and other speedsters always ignore -- go too fast and it becomes impossible to keep your feet on the ground as it curves away beneath you faster than you can fall.


he needed Barry to be fast enough to hit Mach 2 to create the wormhole
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Just for comparison, the speed of light is Mach 880991.09.
 
matthunter said:
Barry has the potential to be faster than he usually is. He keeps saying "I've never gone that fast" whenever he's asked to pull off a new trick, but he implicitly ran faster than light when he travelled back in time a day WITHOUT the particle accelerator to help him. His issue is his self-doubt. If Zoom can't kill him, the next best thing is to convince him he's second-rate. Which is exactly what Thawne was doing in their S1 fights - he needed Barry to be fast enough to hit Mach 2 to create the wormhole, but not fast enough he could conceivably beat him in a fight.

I'm convinced it wasn't just impatience that lead Thawne to create the Flash seven years earlier than it would have happened in the original timeline. A more adult, self-confident Barry - maybe having even become head of the Central City CSI division before he even GOT his powers? - would have fewer doubts. Fewer limits. He'd be the Barry that Thawne couldn't beat, instead of the one he curbstomped every time they faced off.
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Wells wanted and needed Brry to increase his speed in season one, so he could use his speed to return himself to the future. There's no reason why Zoom didn't kill Barry, he had him helpless nor is there a good for him to have taken Barry's speed sicne yet again Barry was helpless against him. Zoom's actions have been rather odd, he didn't even unmask Barry to show everybody who he is. This defeat only means Barry can work to defeat him in the future.
 
Christopher said:
he needed Barry to be fast enough to hit Mach 2 to create the wormhole
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Just for comparison, the speed of light is Mach 880991.09.
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But how fast was the particle Barry hit, that was fired at him by the supercollider?

:ouch:

Who said time travel was about light speed in this story?

It's about cutting space, not about being beyond the substantive nature of space.

A wormhole is a short cut so that you can move obscene distances with out figuring out how to get to light speed.
 
Time travel seems to have something more to do with the speed force itself rather than actual speed that Barry is traveling, I think.
 
matthunter said:
DWF said:
If Zoom wanted to kill Barry or steal his speed why didn't he just od it? And really why get Dr. Light or Wells to work for him when can quite clearly take out Barry all by himself?
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Well, the old theory was that he couldn't stay on Earth-1 long or he'd lose his speed, so he sent the metas - but that seems to be out of the window.

Another theory that works for me is that Zoom wants to be the best, so if Barry was enough of a threat to challenge him (and thus make it worth him coming to Earth-1) the metas would be a good test of that.
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I've been assuming he was testing him for some reason.
I hadn't given much thought before now, but I guess there really was no reason he couldn't have killed Barry when he had him unconscious. It definitely seems to me that he must want him alive for some reason.
Hopefully now that we've gotten the first real confrontation between him and Barry, we'll start to learn more about Zoom's motivation.
 
If Zoom is the Earth 2 version of Henry Allen that might excplain things, but so far he doesn't seem to be a very complex villain.
 
His mastery over extradimensional travel might indicate he's not using the speed force to run.

His mastery over extradimensional travel might suggest that Zoom is from Earth 3 or 4.
 
Do we even know he has a mastery over interdimensional travel? Hasn't he just been sending people through portals that he had nothing to do with?
 
theenglish said:
Time travel seems to have something more to do with the speed force itself rather than actual speed that Barry is traveling, I think.
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Thing is, we haven't had a proper definition of what the speed force IS in this version of the Flash. In the comics, it's an alternate dimension of "speed energy" that speedsters tap into and can travel to, if they can go fast enough. But they risk not being able to get back out.

In the show, it seems to be more implied as being some form of energy that's intrinsic to the cells of a speedster (they were able to test Jay for it). The only hint we've seen that it might be something external that speedsters tap into is the fact that Thawne lost his speed after he changed history and Barry never became the Flash... presumably without Barry discovering the speed force, no-one else ever learnt how to tap into it.
 
matthunter said:
theenglish said:
Time travel seems to have something more to do with the speed force itself rather than actual speed that Barry is traveling, I think.
Click to expand...

Thing is, we haven't had a proper definition of what the speed force IS in this version of the Flash. In the comics, it's an alternate dimension of "speed energy" that speedsters tap into and can travel to, if they can go fast enough. But they risk not being able to get back out.

In the show, it seems to be more implied as being some form of energy that's intrinsic to the cells of a speedster (they were able to test Jay for it). The only hint we've seen that it might be something external that speedsters tap into is the fact that Thawne lost his speed after he changed history and Barry never became the Flash... presumably without Barry discovering the speed force, no-one else ever learnt how to tap into it.
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I thought he lost his speed for some other totally unrelated/accidental reason and that it was just massively ironic that the only way he could go home and regain his powers was with the help of the very person he'd just erased from the timeline.
 
I have a question that's been bugging me all throughout the season so far. Where's Gideon? Did that AI get destroyed when Reverse Flash was wiped out? Did I miss that episode or was that part of when Cisco went in and did something to the AI's nerve center.
 
sjsharksfan39 said:
I have a question that's been bugging me all throughout the season so far? Where's Gideon? Did that AI get destroyed when Reverse Flash was wiped out? Did I miss that episode or was that part of when Cisco went in and did something to the AI's nerve center.
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The show-runners said it just vanished (I think) - I don't think they plan to reference it again.
 
JoeZhang said:
sjsharksfan39 said:
I have a question that's been bugging me all throughout the season so far? Where's Gideon? Did that AI get destroyed when Reverse Flash was wiped out? Did I miss that episode or was that part of when Cisco went in and did something to the AI's nerve center.
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The show-runners said it just vanished (I think) - I don't think they plan to reference it again.
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That's a bummer, since it seemd it played a major role in Season 1.
 
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