Spoilers The Flash (2023) -Review and Discussion Thread
- Thread starter thribs
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Hey, they got to make their money back somehow. (although I have to wonder how many DC fans will honestly take the bait.)
Likely when the Blu-ray drops.
Touché.
...and you can add Han Solo subjected to carbon freezing and hauled off by Fett in TESB, since the world knew Han would be rescued and fully engaged in the final film's plot.
The big "offender" was Avengers: Infinity War, as no one believed the "dusted" characters were permanently on the opposite side of alive and would return for the obligatory rumble in Endgame.
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The difference between Snyder's death of Superman and the other examples mentioned is that Han Solo and the dusted heroes in Infinity War had a tremendous amount of audience good will from their prior appearances. Snyder's Superman didn't, and that's why it fell flat compared to the other examples.
Han and Spock coming back aren't even comparable to the Superman situation. They made a poin, of verbally telling the audience over and over that Han wasn't dead, Fett wanted him kept alive, even while the process was occurring. There wasn't even a death to fake there, Han fell asleep and the audience knew he was going to wake up. And Nimoy wanting out after decades of playing the character wasn't a secret, as far as he was concerned at the time of the movie he wasn't coming back.
Both HUGE differences to Superman where, had the movies done well and behind the scenes shenanigans didn't ruin everything, Cavill would have been Superman for many more appearance and was just starting. While the actors playing the other two didn't hide that they wanted out, despite Ford not getting his wish to get killed off in the third movie.
Both HUGE differences to Superman where, had the movies done well and behind the scenes shenanigans didn't ruin everything, Cavill would have been Superman for many more appearance and was just starting. While the actors playing the other two didn't hide that they wanted out, despite Ford not getting his wish to get killed off in the third movie.
This was after 15 years of the character existing, i forget if there were many (or any) extra Trek novels at this point...but definitely fan fiction in addition to TOS and TAS and stuff like the records and some early comics.
And being pre-internet, not all of us know the secret when TWOK came out.
I agree with you... and had Cavill been in a couple of movies, it would have felt more of a shock, and dramatically would have worked.
Not really. Yeah,both were 2nd films. But as i noted above, Spock had over 15 years of development (and even voice actors on the records were still supposed to portray the same version of the character).Superman dying in the second film seems a fairly close parallel to Spock:
We only had 2 films, and the first did a poor job of developing Clark's heroics (in contract the First Avenger).
As mentioned -- Han alive when Boba Fett took him, and the movie ended on a "cliffhanger" anyway, so we were expected a 3rd movie, and certainly Han's rescue was part of the plot.
For Infinity war -- sure, we expected all the dusted characters to return (especially as we were expecting sequels to their successful solo movies). But that had some dramatic impact due to several levels:
1. We did not know who would be dusted and would would survive. I don't think people were necessarily expecting that all the Original MCU Avengers would survive.
2. Some of the deaths were dramatic, especially Peter's. Yeah, we all knew he would be back, since he only had 1 movie at that point. But that ad lib definitely felt intense...more so that Superman dying
3. Black Panther's , in looking back, was more dramatic, because of Chadwick Boseman's untimely death... We were expecting him to carry own leadership, and in fact lead Black Panther 2. Instead, his "first" (or i guess 2nd) death, made his "real" death more dramatic, as least for Queen Ramonda, with that loss, then, grieving, then loss again.
4. The return of the dusted heroes felt exciting when they got ready for this final battle. Not so much for Superman, which felt like another Batman vs Superman battle.
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In 1982, just about everyone knew Spock was coming back thanks to Kirk's voice over explicitly saying he would return to the Genesis planet along with the shot of the torpedo casket. There was no way such a scene would be added only to pull the rug out from under millions of fans who would expect to see Spock in a follow-up.
Superman saved earth and the entire human species in Man of Steel. That's as heroic as any act in a superhero film, and inarguably the most heroic Superman act in live action up to that time. Nothing else comes close. He did not need several movies to achieve that heroic status, which is a failing for any other character to require that.
You're making my point: audiences knew Han was not in any real danger since he was going to return for whatever final Rebellion v. Empire fight would unfold.
The fact audiences were aware of some rather loud facts, such as Marvel (up to that time) never killing off major characters portrayed by actors with contracts for more appearances meant there was no sense of loss. The dusted characters could have been lost on a road trip and it would have had the same lack of an impact.
There was just no way The Amazing Marvel Flagship Character, Doctor Strange and Black Panther were in any danger at all, which the audience was well aware of, no matter the reactions of the surviving characters..
I would not use something as tragic as a real man's death to bolster a poorly constructed / executed "death" of a fictional character in hindsight. At the time of the film's release, I believe the public was unaware of Boseman's terrible condition, and it was not cheapened as a tool for a comic book character's would-be demise.
Finishing it's box office run at $260 million is an embarrassment, but what's burying it is that's against an alleged $300 million budget. The combination of super hight cost to make, plus the measly box office is what's made this among the biggest bombs in history.
I'm still waiting for that Superman Returns extended cut....
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