The Final Frontier - the best of the series?
- Thread starter Ken Dodd
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are you a fan of Prometheus by any chance?
IMHO, STV is a mixture of the very best and very worst of TOS.
The campfire scenes, even the implied fart joke, felt authentic.
The movie's start, a pre-credits teaser, was very nicely done.
"I'll die alone" was a great moment. Pity "Generations" changes its ending to let Kirk do a complete audiobook for Picard (the original death was downbeat - not heroic - and despite that it still had far more poignance than Kirk's "blah blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah it was fun" speech.
The movie uses shuttlecraft as primary and predominant use of transport. How can anyone hate that?
Sybok is cool.
Sybok trying to turn the crew was great.
implied relationship(Uhura + Scotty) = cool!
Obviously the movie has a lot of scenes worth not mentioning. Particularly the humor, which is what Paramount wanted thanks to STIV whose being a barrel of laughs brought in more audiences.
Shatner's direction was not that bad overall.
Looking for God is always a touchy subject, but the ending (God is in all of us, Kirk touching his heart) was great.
The original idea of the rock men was very TOS-esque.
Allegedly, ILM was contacted too late - or working on too many other projects, all of which came out at the same time - to get to STV. Some effects were bad. Others were pretty decent.
It's not my favorite of the franchise, but it's underrated.
If it were a 2 parter in TOS it would be seen as a classic episode, your expectations are too high simply b/c it's a movie. I don't see how anyone who's seen all of TOS could hold a grudge against ST5. All complaints about any of these movies are from ignorant perspectives. It's unarguably in the ST spirit and the character interactions (which are the most important part to a lot of ppl, maybe even most ppl) are excellent. That being said, it's 6th place for me.
ST4, ST2, ST6, ST3, ST1, ST5. Taken together, they're a worthy substitute for a fourth season.
ST4, ST2, ST6, ST3, ST1, ST5. Taken together, they're a worthy substitute for a fourth season.
The thing about TFF being closer in sprit to TOS like a big budget version episode (Way to Eden done better) raises an interesting point.. the previous movies had become their own thing like 'Movie Trek' yes it was a continuation of TOS but it had become its own thing so much it was almost difficult to look at TOS as the same thing.. whereas TFF kind of goes backward to TOS, yes they in the movie uniforms and the models/FX are of the 'movie era' (well, almost) but the feel of it is 'off'.. it dosnt feel part of the same series as I-IV and VI which all felt like proper 'movies' in tone, look, feel (with TMP as TOS as big budget 2001 Trek)..its like TFF went back to TOS and did a closer version of that in tone/look/feel (the FX being inadvertently more TOS like).. but the movies had sort of 'moved on' from that, had become more sophisticated/mature and 'movie like'?
Agree, "Way To Eden" and TFF.
Plus, on a lighter note each had an unforgettable song.
This is a very interesting analysis. Combine the "we've moved on to movie Trek" thought with the fact that TNG was rolling and was also very different from TOS, and you have a mix for a bad reaction.
I remember watching (or at least listening to the audio) some years ago when I was struck by pretty much all that you said. I still don't like the movie very much, but BOY is it trying its level best to be a Star Trek episode!
One thing that caught my attention the most is that it is the Star Trek film that gives Kirk, Spock, and McCoy things to do together. TMP is probably second.
And for all of Shatner's alleged egomania, everyone has something interesting to do. Arguably more than III or IV. (Nobody not named Kirk, Spock, or McCoy had anything to do in TMP or II.) He even lets Spock save they day!
While I can certainly appreciate the effort, it's not a good movie. But Sybok is terrifc.
I love watching The Final Frontier.
But, I do not think it is a good movie. I think its a terrible, terrible movie. But if it's on TV and I have some time to kill, I will not pass up the chance to watch it. It has some of the funniest lines in all of Star Trek, albeit sometimes unintentionally.
"I NEED MY PAIN!" I know its suppose to be dramatic. I know there is substance to it. I know it's actually quite philosophical and also very true, but damn, it's just so funny.
Marshmelons? Deck 78? Using Grandma Uhura as a sexed-up distraction? Biker Klingons? Le-Le-Le-Level please? Turbolift, you've never asked for the destination deck before, and when you do...it's to make this joke! It's nonstop laughs. And when Scotty is giving his log at the beginning the extras in the background look as if they should be using hammers and hack saws while they're working. Everything is just so wonderfully silly in this movie. EVERYTHING.
But, I do not think it is a good movie. I think its a terrible, terrible movie. But if it's on TV and I have some time to kill, I will not pass up the chance to watch it. It has some of the funniest lines in all of Star Trek, albeit sometimes unintentionally.
"I NEED MY PAIN!" I know its suppose to be dramatic. I know there is substance to it. I know it's actually quite philosophical and also very true, but damn, it's just so funny.
Marshmelons? Deck 78? Using Grandma Uhura as a sexed-up distraction? Biker Klingons? Le-Le-Le-Level please? Turbolift, you've never asked for the destination deck before, and when you do...it's to make this joke! It's nonstop laughs. And when Scotty is giving his log at the beginning the extras in the background look as if they should be using hammers and hack saws while they're working. Everything is just so wonderfully silly in this movie. EVERYTHING.
Final Frontier had its issues. As a younger audience, I can see where the bits that were just bad and didn't line up with later events in the Star Trek timeline. But all in all, it wasn't too bad though as I can watch it without cringing.
I just have to wonder if they had a continuity person on staff that would've pointed out being unable to get to the center of the universe in a few hours, the number of decks Enterprise apparently has (which makes me think the oversized Enterprise and Kelvin in the Kelvin timeline came from these errors), the distortion between Enterprise-A at the end of TVH and Enterprise-A in this film. I could go on.
I once wrote off the idea that the reason the Enterprise got to the Great Barrier was through a short-term stable wormhole that only appears for a few short days every century or so that allows almost instant travel between Federation space near Nimbus III (thus Sybok's reasoning for being there) and where "Sha Ka Ree" was located. We didn't see it as the ship was likely in the wormhole during Kirk, Spock and McCoy's climb up the turboshaft. Also with the differences in the Enterprise-A in TVH and E-A in TFF.
(Say if TVH was March-May 2286) The Enterprise-A went on a three-month shakedown cruise (since its fresh off the line) and then got redirected to a Starbase for experimental systems, which a week later blew out the ship's systems including comms, leading them to limp back to Earth for weeks if not months, by the time they returned, it was December 2286. Given shore leave, Kirk's parents were likely off-world and out of contact so Kirk was glum (same with McCoy's daughter and her family), it was early-Feb 2287 when the situation happened.
I just have to wonder if they had a continuity person on staff that would've pointed out being unable to get to the center of the universe in a few hours, the number of decks Enterprise apparently has (which makes me think the oversized Enterprise and Kelvin in the Kelvin timeline came from these errors), the distortion between Enterprise-A at the end of TVH and Enterprise-A in this film. I could go on.
I once wrote off the idea that the reason the Enterprise got to the Great Barrier was through a short-term stable wormhole that only appears for a few short days every century or so that allows almost instant travel between Federation space near Nimbus III (thus Sybok's reasoning for being there) and where "Sha Ka Ree" was located. We didn't see it as the ship was likely in the wormhole during Kirk, Spock and McCoy's climb up the turboshaft. Also with the differences in the Enterprise-A in TVH and E-A in TFF.
(Say if TVH was March-May 2286) The Enterprise-A went on a three-month shakedown cruise (since its fresh off the line) and then got redirected to a Starbase for experimental systems, which a week later blew out the ship's systems including comms, leading them to limp back to Earth for weeks if not months, by the time they returned, it was December 2286. Given shore leave, Kirk's parents were likely off-world and out of contact so Kirk was glum (same with McCoy's daughter and her family), it was early-Feb 2287 when the situation happened.
(Say if TVH was March-May 2286) The Enterprise-A went on a three-month shakedown cruise (since its fresh off the line) and then got redirected to a Starbase for experimental systems, which a week later blew out the ship's systems including comms, leading them to limp back to Earth for weeks if not months, by the time they returned, it was December 2286. Given shore leave, Kirk's parents were likely off-world and out of contact so Kirk was glum (same with McCoy's daughter and her family), it was early-Feb 2287 when the situation happened.[/QUOTE]
You put more thought into this movie than most, including, perhaps, the writers.
I found this movie to have a few good moments, including the campfire scenes.
I really disliked that they made the Enterprise itself a joke. The original series was "the voyages of the starship Enterprise." Here, it was a punch line for comedy that just fell flat.
It really turned me against the Enterprise - A. At least it was redeemed in the next movie.
You put more thought into this movie than most, including, perhaps, the writers.
I found this movie to have a few good moments, including the campfire scenes.
I really disliked that they made the Enterprise itself a joke. The original series was "the voyages of the starship Enterprise." Here, it was a punch line for comedy that just fell flat.
It really turned me against the Enterprise - A. At least it was redeemed in the next movie.
You put more thought into this movie than most, including, perhaps, the writers.
I found this movie to have a few good moments, including the campfire scenes.
I really disliked that they made the Enterprise itself a joke. The original series was "the voyages of the starship Enterprise." Here, it was a punch line for comedy that just fell flat.
It really turned me against the Enterprise - A. At least it was redeemed in the next movie.[/QUOTE]
I'm a writer by occupation. I have a massive imagination.
To me, the main problem of this movie is the aesthetics. The planet scenes are just awful. Earth just looks like a set to me and the other planets look ugly. The planets are ugly, the people are ugly without being cool. To me this is why TFF is rated below NEM which has at least as many cheesy "humourous" scenes. NEM's planet scenes looked beautiful. The good guys were beautiful in NEM and the bad guys ugly - so no thinking required. And Sybok is not believable as Spock's brother. Not for one minute did I believe he was Spock's brother, half-brother whatever. He didn't look anything like Spock - they should have used that guy who played Sarek in Same problem as NEM, I did not believe for one minute that Shinzon was Picard's clone.
And you know - I didn't hate Uhura's fan dance tactic. I just wished we didn't have to see it on screen. When the guys made it over the sand dune - I don't think they were concerned about Uhura's age - I mean look at them - they weren't in any position to be fussy.
And you know - I didn't hate Uhura's fan dance tactic. I just wished we didn't have to see it on screen. When the guys made it over the sand dune - I don't think they were concerned about Uhura's age - I mean look at them - they weren't in any position to be fussy.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It's the only original series Star Trek film that has never been given a Director's Cut when it's clearly the one that needs it the most.
It's fairly objectively bad. The story is clumsy and unfocused. The acting is all over the map. The humor is forced. The visual effects are crap.
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