The Fall of Joss Whedon

[JirinPanthosa]

Which is also a taboo. For a reason.

Although, there is still a difference, because someone who isn't your boss anymore usually doesn't have anymore power over you, whereas that kind of state can almost never be truly reached by a parent.

All of that is still a discussion of power gradients, and none is unique to their specific relationship is my point.

What years of her childhood was he actually in her life? I’m under the impression she was already past early childhood when he gained that role.

I remember one time there was a Survivor contestant whose life got raked over the coals when people saw she was married to her deceased husband’s son from a previous marriage, and cases like that are just plain none of anyone’s business.

 

[BillJ]

I remember one time there was a Survivor contestant whose life got raked over the coals when people saw she was married to her deceased husband’s son from a previous marriage, and cases like that are just plain none of anyone’s business.

Gross.

 

[Maurice]

Jeff Greenwald's book Future Perfect: How Star Trek Conquered Planet Earth includes a bit about the sex parties at Braga's place in the mid-90s, and one of my ex-girlfriends was propositioned by Braga at a convention. None of this rises to the level of misconduct, and as far as I know no one's accused him to such. I'm merely pointing out that he had a history.

History of what? What's your point? What "history" does hosting or attending a sex party or propositioning someone make?

 

[Yistaan]

Cause of the age difference and power differential, but nothing that isn’t also true of bosses dating employees.

Wasn't Michelle a superior of Barack Obama when they started dating? I can't remember.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

History of what? What's your point? What "history" does hosting or attending a sex party or propositioning someone make?

Dude likes sex, and group sex at that. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[DigificWriter]

Gross.

You're not qualified to make that kind of determination.

Unless a person's conduct is actually criminal and is prosecuted as such, no-one has a right to pass judgment on said conduct.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Not only do I hope Joss Whedon finally faces accountability for his behavior, I hope the same happens to WB who enabled his behavior and tried to cover it up.

I doubt anything will happen to WB regarding Whedon, just as nothing ever happened with any of the other studios he's worked for/with during the periods he was accused of abuse.

the more telling is just how many people don't care and still want to work and make movies even after knowing about Roman Polanski or Woody Allen

Agreed--which shines a bright light on their lack of morality that they can just blink and ignore it, all for the "honor" of working with men as despicable as Polanski and Allen.

 

[Finn]

You're not qualified to make that kind of determination.

Unless a person's conduct is actually criminal and is prosecuted as such, no-one has a right to pass judgment on said conduct.

 

[DigificWriter]

"Judge not, lest ye be judged".

 

[cooleddie74]

You're not qualified to make that kind of determination.

Unless a person's conduct is actually criminal and is prosecuted as such, no-one has a right to pass judgment on said conduct.

 

[Jayson1]

That's quite a cliché. Do we have any research suggesting creativity and abuse are even correlated? Of course, your statement means that creativity and *any* crime should be related, 'cause boundaries...

I think what determines the quota of abuse is mostly the power structure. With celebrities, we notice these cases more because they are in the limelight, quite literally, when they finally do come to light I doubt there are less cases in other workplaces. The more power the abusers hold within the power strcture (church, military, movie guru), the more opportunities, the less inclination to believe the victims, and so on.

I'm sure there's also the matter of preselection (what type of person chooses and gets accepted into these structures), but I doubt the general trait of 'creativity' would provide any insight there. My apologies if I've overlooked any significant research.

I think the cliche is mostly true. It's why everyone being busted just so happens to be people who are the best in the business. Whedon wasn't a brilliant writer despite his personal issues. Those issues helped make him that brilliant writer. Goes beyond art. It's next to impossible to find something great that wasn't given to us by a terrible person or a group of people exploiting another group of people. It's why the lovey dovey aspects of socialism never works and Capitalism which is best system still often runs amuck. It's why people have a history of looking the other way when terrible things happen in society. Why I think everyone does this but everyone also has certain lines they think people should not cross.

 

[BillJ]

You're not qualified to make that kind of determination.

Based on my values, I am able to make that kind of determination. It isn’t binding on that person, except when they are interacting with me.

Joss Whedon hasn’t done anything “legally” wrong that I know of, it doesn’t mean that I’m going to give him my money or attention to new work going forward.

 

[Yistaan]

I hadn't heard anything about the racy parties with Braga before. It seems even more confusing to me now that Jeri dated him considering the infamous way her marriage to her previous husband ended.

 

[Mudd]

I think the cliche is mostly true. It's why everyone being busted just so happens to be people who are the best in the business. Whedon wasn't a brilliant writer despite his personal issues. Those issues helped make him that brilliant writer.

I don't think that kind of correlation is at all persuasive and I don't believe in it - i.e., "most great writers are alcoholic" and so forth.

What's self-evident is that there's zero correlation between creative talent and what we like to call "moral character." Zip, nada, zilch.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

I think the cliche is mostly true. It's why everyone being busted just so happens to be people who are the best in the business. Whedon wasn't a brilliant writer despite his personal issues. Those issues helped make him that brilliant writer. Goes beyond art. It's next to impossible to find something great that wasn't given to us by a terrible person or a group of people exploiting another group of people. It's why the lovey dovey aspects of socialism never works and Capitalism which is best system still often runs amuck. It's why people have a history of looking the other way when terrible things happen in society. Why I think everyone does this but everyone also has certain lines they think people should not cross.

I don't think that kind of correlation is at all persuasive and I don't believe in it - i.e., "most great writers are alcoholic" and so forth.

What's self-evident is that there's zero correlation between creative talent and what we like to call "moral character." Zip, nada, zilch.

Apparently, people want to believe...

This notion of art, artists and creativity originates in romanticism, and I guess we shouldn't let facts get in the way.

I'm not even going to try and point out this highly subjective notion of "the best in the business".

 

[Jayson1]

Maybe it's more about great artist having some kind of personal trauma whether it is growing up in a dysfunctional family or maybe having a addiction problem but then success and power allows those issues to become worst because their success isn't filling that possible hole in their heart that people want such as love and true happiness. Then they often surround themselves with other people with the same hole thus it often never gets filled. But sometimes it does.

 

[Mudd]

Jayson, all you're doing is constructing another comfortable myth about people to replace the one you have to give up when you realize that people you admire do bad things.

Another trite and often-invoked myth, at that.

Now, you can shoot back that it's "not comforting" to believe in the tortured and dysfunctional artist - but it certainly is. It fits neatly into the belief that the universe has a moral framework that exists outside the human mind.

 

[Jayson1]

If that is true it kind of makes "Mank" feel like nonsense. Even more so from the already known historical inaccuracies. Saw that movie the other day.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I doubt anything will happen to WB regarding Whedon, just as nothing ever happened with any of the other studios he's worked for/with during the periods he was accused of abuse.

Oh, I'm well aware of the unlikelihood of WB facing any kind of accountability, but that doesn't lessen my hope for them to face it.

 

[Mudd]

If that is true it kind of makes "Mank" feel like nonsense.

Perish the thought.