Spoilers The Falcon and Winter Soldier discussion

[TREK_GOD_1]

I get the impression it’s the ones who didn’t vanish in IW that are the refugees, not the ones who returned to no jobs homes or money

I'm not certain about the non-snapped people being the refugees; the two on-screen examples of normal families still surviving in homes were Clint and Scott's families--meaning they were not homeless or forced to move to some camp, etc. Those who suddenly re-appeared would be the people without assets, unless they owned maintained property, banks froze accounts (which happens of some cases of deceased individuals, or at the request of authorized parties) and forced to seek help wherever they could find it.

 

[Noname Given]

Thanks, I was thinking of Steve's blood, but couldn't remember if it was MCU or something I was conflating from the comics. Have to rewatch TFA.And Agent Carter. I have a lot of review to do for the final.

Now back to F&WS ep 3: When the shipping container lab blew, the camera lingered on the vials of blue liquid a second too long before the explosion. I was left with feeling that someone who was not Bucky walked away with some of that blue stuff in their system. Just a hunch.

Given that the Marvel comics version of Zemo used a version of the Super Soldier serum, this is a distinct possibility. That said if he was exposed we should be seeing effects (that wouldn't be pretty for him given Karli's comments of 'burning veins", and how they showed the Russian Super Soldier candidates reacting to the serum in Captain America: Civil War); although I wouldn't be surprised if he has some of those vials in his pockets.

 

[thribs]

I should have figured the redhead would resort to killing people. Gingers have no soul after all.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I'm not certain about the non-snapped people being the refugees; the two on-screen examples of normal families still surviving in homes were Clint and Scott's families--meaning they were not homeless or forced to move to some camp, etc. Those who suddenly re-appeared would be the people without assets, unless they owned maintained property, banks froze accounts (which happens of some cases of deceased individuals, or at the request of authorized parties) and forced to seek help wherever they could find it.

At the time of the Snap civil law would have been in chaos, so I doubt any estates would have been settled quickly. Generally it takes over a year in the best of times, particularly due to having to file the final tax return prior to closing the estate. With the Snap it would have taken years just to do the accounting of assets, what property was owned, insurance claims, consolidating bank accounts, securities, and I don't even want to think about Bitcoins. The simplest estates probably wouldn't be settled for 4-5 years considering the lack of probate clerks, not to mention courts. This all without getting into situations of frozen accounts, existing liens and lawsuits, and tax audits.

Anyway to the main point, I think the refugees would be a mix. For example a lot of non-snapped would have had their jobs disappear because their boss owned a small business and disappeared in the Snap. Homes destroyed by fires and crashing vehicles would have no effective insurance coverage. Etc, etc. Returning Snapees might have an easy return, like Clint's family, or come back to nothing. So, a mix.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I think realistically there would be a mix of refuges for various different reasons. But it seems like Karli herself is coming from a situation where things were taken away from her because they were supposed to belong to someone else who's suddenly alive again and that's why she wound up in a camp.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I keep wanting to hear someone say the words "Thanos was right".

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

3 episodes in and halfway through the show, I have to say it’s not as gripping as WandaVision as a must see event.

I like it, the social issue parts are pretty great to see. But it doesn’t really feel like something we haven’t seen before in and outside the MCU before.

Granted, not every TV show needs to rev

I keep wanting to hear someone say the words "Thanos was right".

Right. And completely forget that he was the one causing the bad situation in the first place.

 

[wayoung]

All this talk about the Snap - the world would have been a lot more fucked up than any Marvel product has presented. Half the world's population disappearing and all the immediate disasters followed by the intermediate disasters caused by it.... Millions would have died, governments would have fallen, wars would have broken out, hell just think - every nuclear plant in the world is now missing half its staff at best - that can't be good....

5 years later maybe shit is finally starting to straighten out and BAM 3.5 billion people re-appear out of nowhere. All new world ending crisis, but in reverse. Not enough food being produced, not enough power, homes sold, resold, demolished, wealth transferred, etc. Etc.

The MCU should be an apocalyptic world from just one of those events, let alone both of them...

Instead, Spiderman showed us the USA and western Europe are just as fine as ever and The Falcon and The Winter Soldier are talking about refugee camps in third world countries but that's about it. Everywhere the characters have went still looks the same as pre snap. Zemo's criminal contacts haven't even changed after a decade in prison.

The MCU talk a big game about how world changing the Snap is but really it's same status quo since Phase 2 started. Just a background excuse for new villians at best.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I should have figured the redhead would resort to killing people. Gingers have no soul after all.

Then you should not be shocked when a ginger responds to your comment in this way...

 

[Turtletrekker]

That was my biggest fear when I discovered that the snap was going to last five years. At the time the movie was released I mentioned that Tony Stark's solution was just as bad as the problem. At that time I figured the movies would just gloss over it completely as I didn't know about the Disney plus entries. The television shows are dealing with it more directly than I imagine any of the upcoming movies will, but it still seems unrealistic and very insufficient.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I get the impression it’s the ones who didn’t vanish in IW that are the refugees, not the ones who returned to no jobs homes or money

I was thinking about the bank loan.

 

[Anwar]

All this talk about the Snap - the world would have been a lot more fucked up than any Marvel product has presented. Half the world's population disappearing and all the immediate disasters followed by the intermediate disasters caused by it.... Millions would have died, governments would have fallen, wars would have broken out, hell just think - every nuclear plant in the world is now missing half its staff at best - that can't be good....

5 years later maybe shit is finally starting to straighten out and BAM 3.5 billion people re-appear out of nowhere. All new world ending crisis, but in reverse. Not enough food being produced, not enough power, homes sold, resold, demolished, wealth transferred, etc. Etc.

The MCU should be an apocalyptic world from just one of those events, let alone both of them...

Instead, Spiderman showed us the USA and western Europe are just as fine as ever and The Falcon and The Winter Soldier are talking about refugee camps in third world countries but that's about it. Everywhere the characters have went still looks the same as pre snap. Zemo's criminal contacts haven't even changed after a decade in prison.

The MCU talk a big game about how world changing the Snap is but really it's same status quo since Phase 2 started. Just a background excuse for new villians at best.

Keep in mind the MCU world has super-geniuses like Stark, Banner, the Wakandans, etc. And the Skrull's secret assistance too. That would do a lot to helping.

And let's face it, even in the comics Spider-Man has always been crappy with dealing with "Bigger World" issues. Like when Norman Osborn became the head of SHIELD/Hammer, the Spidey comics ignored that for months.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Just had a random thought, a realization that they might be paying more respect to, or at least acknowledging the existence of, the previous television shows than we previously realized.

In Falcon and Winter Soldier, the scientist who recreated the super soldier serum was Wilfred Nagel, a character from the comics who was indeed connected to the original Super Soldier program, which gives the character a certain verisimilitude in terms of comics connections.

However, the far more comics accurate character to have used in this situation would have been Dr. Karl Malus, who has already been used in Jessica Jones season 2. He was Power Broker's chief scientist in the comics. Malus is so minor of a character that a lot of people didn't even realize he was a character from the comics at all during Jessica Jones season 2, so if they were disregarding the Marvel Television productions entirely, reusing the Malus character would be of no real significance.

Of course, it's entirely possible that I'm reading into something that isn't there, but I know that the folks at Marvel Studios are very familiar with their source material.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

All this talk about the Snap - the world would have been a lot more fucked up than any Marvel product has presented. Half the world's population disappearing and all the immediate disasters followed by the intermediate disasters caused by it.... Millions would have died, governments would have fallen, wars would have broken out, hell just think - every nuclear plant in the world is now missing half its staff at best - that can't be good....

5 years later maybe shit is finally starting to straighten out and BAM 3.5 billion people re-appear out of nowhere. All new world ending crisis, but in reverse. Not enough food being produced, not enough power, homes sold, resold, demolished, wealth transferred, etc. Etc.

The MCU should be an apocalyptic world from just one of those events, let alone both of them...

Instead, Spiderman showed us the USA and western Europe are just as fine as ever and The Falcon and The Winter Soldier are talking about refugee camps in third world countries but that's about it. Everywhere the characters have went still looks the same as pre snap. Zemo's criminal contacts haven't even changed after a decade in prison.

The MCU talk a big game about how world changing the Snap is but really it's same status quo since Phase 2 started. Just a background excuse for new villians at best.

All fair points but I don't hold most of those against the MCU. I don't mind not seeing those dark aspects because part of the reason the MCU works so well is because of its generally upbeat nature (aside from, of course, Infinity War's cliffhanger but even then we knew that wouldn't be permanent for many reasons). I'm glad they're not outright ignoring the implications of what happened because of Thanos' and Bruce's respective Snaps, but I don't want them to get too bogged down into the nit and gritty of it all. I don't think any of us want the MCU to become "grimdark" as has become common nature in many films and shows these days.

Besides, as I said after watching Endgame the first time, if I want to watch a realistic sociological take on the sudden loss of a large portion of the world's population (or at least more realistic one), then I'll rewatch The Leftovers. In fact, everyone should watch that show because it's excellent.

 

[UssGlenn]

So the Governments primary response after the blip would be helping those who retuned. In democracies especially, that's 50% of all voters (plus unsnapped family members). It would be unjust to punish people for a random event completely out of their control. Once everyone was back anyone who had moved into abandoned property would be seen as having "took advantage" of the situation. So they end up loosing everything they built over 5 years, and get moved into camps as there's no where else for many of them to go. The GRC is responsible for both the returned and displaced, but they clearly are more focused on the former. You know, the ones with the jobs and property and power again.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Given that the Marvel comics version of Zemo used a version of the Super Soldier serum, this is a distinct possibility.

Not familiar with this storyline.

 

[Noname Given]

Not familiar with this storyline.

Doh! My mistake. I remember the stories about the original Baron Zemo retaining his youth and vitality even though he was a true contemporary of Captain America's original time, and it's been a while since I actually read some of those stories, so I thought it was because of exposure or use of a version of Super Soldier serum, but in checking some online sources, Zemo aged slower due to something known as "Compound X" (not to be confused with "Adhesive X", which is how the villain got the mask permanently glued to his face during World War II.)

 

[wayoung]

I'm not saying the MCU is wrong for what they're doing with regards to the Snap (or blip or wtf it's official name is). My issue is they've never been concerned with the repercussions of the events of their films - having the background "There are refugee camps" etc doesn't really match anything we've seen. But now those negative effects are supposed to be the driving narrative of this series.

I think they've got to spend a good chunk of an episode showing the shit Karli etc. have gone through to really make the flag smashers work as sympathetic antagonists. The only negative repercussions that we've seen from the blip are Sam not having income for 5 years (and that scene was presented more as a racial issue than a blip issue) and Ramboux's mom dying while she was blipped.

MCU is bad at dealing with the lives of the collateral damage the heros are responsible for/or at least didn't "save". WandaVision showed that in spades with its treatment of the townsfolk. Now we have an antagonist whose primary drive is supposed to be that she was collateral damage. And that just hasn't been established.

Good bringing Zemo in for this though as his motivation is also being collateral damage and he already called them on never going to the Sekovia memorial despite how often Sekovia is brought up.

Sharon is also being presented along this line, she was used and forgotten once her part had been played. And Bucky's list, of course.

 

[Tuskin38]

So did people who previously lived in unblipped houses get booted out, and blippers had their property rights and jobs restored?

I was under the impression that it was the other way around.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm not saying the MCU is wrong for what they're doing with regards to the Snap (or blip or wtf it's official name is).

Thanos=Snap
Banner=Blip.