The evolution of Fringe.

[label]

Listen, I fully understood the short-comings of the show throughout the first 2/3'rds of the first Season. It had some cool special effects and some good acting by Noble, but some klunky story-telling and the show really hadn't found it's identity. I get that a lot of you gave it a chance and gave up after a while. I have to tell you guys who gave up.........this show has gotten really good. It has really come into it's own in the second season is telling some pretty consistently compelling stories that are not only interesting and smart, but emotionally compelling and serial in nature.

I see that many of you on this board don't watch this show but I can virtually promise you that if you go back and give the entire run up to this point a shot that you will be very surprised at how consistently good the show finally gets.

It does take a while and does make plenty of mistakes on the way but they have really found something with this show and I don't think anyone who gives this show a second chance would regret the time spent.

Anyway, it's certainly your call but I'd highly recommend giving the show another chance. (Temis and others like you, I'm speaking to you! )

 

[sojourner]

Well, I would agree with you except for a certain plot point they have been dragging out over how many episodes now? 4? 5? 7? yeesh!

Though tonight's episode with Peter Weller rocked!

 

[label]

Well, I would agree with you except for a certain plot point they have been dragging out over how many episodes now? 4? 5? 7? yeesh!

Though tonight's episode with Peter Weller rocked!

I understand that this particular plot point has been a main arc point this season.......but I also understand why given Walter's feelings on the matter and severity of the issue.

I would rather they fully explore this particular plot point from all angles before it's resolved rather than introduce and resolve it more quickly as it's not that big a deal. Honestly, I'm glad they're giving it the gravity/weight it deserves.........it will make the emotional payout (hopefully) what it deserves to be when it finally gets some resolution.

That being said, tonights episode did indeed rock. Very well done episode and furthers the main story arc of the season quite nicely. This has turned into a much more serial show than I would have imagined it would be when it first started.

 

[startrekwatcher]

The thing with Fringe is its inconsistent. When it does the myth stuff it is really good. When it does the weird shit of the week one-offs they are weak and rehashes. The myth episodes are the only ones were the show breaks away from a stale predictable formula that usually involves some technobabbly mumbo jumbo of pseudo science to save the day. I've seen plenty of similar stories elsewhere usually on TXF that were done much much better. Also the characters were not that interesting. I can definitely see why they wrote out Mark Valley's character, for instance. He and Olivia had zero chemistry. And the main cast wasn't knocking my socks off either. What really saved season one were the mythology stories and dear Dr Jones.

The first half of season two was weak barring the occasional myth episode. I didn't particularly care for how a certain character's exit was handled and the characters were still not gelling. After they came back from Xmas break the show was a little better and I thought somewhere around here Olivia, Peter, Astrid and Walter felt like real characters and became a likeable unit where I was more invested in them rather than seeing them as bland plot devices. Even the standalones were a bit better--not great but fairly decent.

Honestly I was indifferent to whether it was renewed or not because while it could be decent or even great in a lot of ways it was like VOY where the unevenness of writing really undermined it as appointment viewing. If it can keep churning out strong episodes over the next few weeks and ditch the hit-or-miss pattern they fell into, it potentially could turn into a show I highly recommend as oppose to one that I would only guardedly recommend.

I can certainly understand how other viewers wouldn't be patient enough to stick it out since I've been surprised that I watched it for so long when I really was lukewarm to it. I guess the mythology stuff was so compelling that it was enough to keep coming back.

 

[sidious618]

I liked it right from the get go but it has improved as it's gone on. I also find the show to be very rewatchable which is a great bonus. I bought season one on DVD the day it came out and finished four days later.

 

[Valin]

I can definitely see why they wrote out Mark Valley's character, for instance. He and Olivia had zero chemistry.

You do know that the two just got divorced in real life (maybe you're right about lack of chemistry)?

I've liked the show since it started. I have no problem with the stand-alone episodes (but, then again, I am getting tired of arc-driven series, anyway).

Good episode tonight.

 

[label]

If it can keep churning out strong episodes over the next few weeks and ditch the hit-or-miss pattern they fell into, it potentially could turn into a show I highly recommend as oppose to one that I would only guardedly recommend.

This show now reminds of me of Star Trek : TNG.....it took a a couple of full seasons or so to play around with the formula and there were some pretty sub-par episodes and poor character pairings in the first couple of seasons. Frankly, the show in the first couple seasons was just not very good. However, that show came into it's 3rd season and really started to find itself and put together some very strong seasons/episodes over the last 5 seasons.

Fringe, like ST:TNG, has seem to really found itself, only Fringe didn't need 2 full Season to find it's stride which is a great thing. With Fringe, towards the end of Season 1 you kind of felt that they were starting to getting a sense of what they wanted to be but there were still some changes that needed to occur...they've now tweaked the formula a bit more in Season 2 but almost every episode has improved from the one before to the point where it's just hitting on all cylinders now. Since the writers have already come out and stated they have a 5 season arc in mind and the show is written and produced by the same people who put together the new Star Trek movie I have a hard time understanding why they aren't giving this show more of a chance. It's not like there's much else out there on TV anyways unless you want another boring CSI clone........

 

[sojourner]

^I think B5 would be a more apt comparison than TNG. First season was weak, second season it found it's stride, 5 season story arc.....

 

[label]

^^ Sure, I'd agree that's just as apropos of a comparison as TNG. Basically, my point is just that those of you who gave up on during the first season really ought to give it another shot - especially if you like serial story-telling.

 

[Starbreaker]

This 5 season story arc was rapidly advanced. The season one finale was supposed to be the finale for Season 3. I think they realized they weren't being very original and pushed the timeline up.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Fringe, like ST:TNG, has seem to really found itself, only Fringe didn't need 2 full Season to find it's stride which is a great thing. With Fringe, towards the end of Season 1 you kind of felt that they were starting to getting a sense of what they wanted to be but there were still some changes that needed to occur...they've now tweaked the formula a bit more in Season 2 but almost every episode has improved from the one before to the point where it's just hitting on all cylinders now.

Fringe is nowhere as good or consistent as TNG was in its third season. I think "Peter" might have been a turning point but we'll see.

TNG to this day is the show that I measure all other episodic series by. TNG was consistent for 4 solid straight years with the worst episode merely being average. It was episodic but not formulaic the way a lot of episodic shows are like CSI. TNG had a nice mix of story types--character drama, high concept mysteries, political intrigue, allegories. TNG was a series that showed you don't need big flashy effects, epic storytelling or large casts to still be good.

If Fringe's standalones were as fresh or interesting as TNG's I wouldn't complain but they usually aren't--they are rehashes and tired ones with nothing new--seen it before and usually better. Anyone that has ever seen a sci-fi show has seen these old yarns or similar tales. TNG had the best mysteries involving sci-fi stuff like Remember Me, The Survivors, Clues, Conundrum, Night Terrors, Parallels, Timescape, Cause/Effect etc. None of Fringe's standalones have even come close. And the TNG cast clicked early on even if the stories were hit or miss.

Where Fringe has excelled are with the myth stories. The writers seem to be on top of their game when they have to focus on the series unique mythology. Too bad they don't turn the series into a heavily serialized show like LOST--I think it could turn the series around in a major way.

Up until recently Fringe simply couldn't pull all the stuff I look for in a tv series together.

Since the writers have already come out and stated they have a 5 season arc in mind and the show is written and produced by the same people who put together the new Star Trek movie I have a hard time understanding why they aren't giving this show more of a chance.

Because the ratings aren't there and I can understand why. In this day and age a show needs to hit the road on all cylinders. When people have seen tv shows like LOST that can hit the road running and there are tons of other shows you want to watch and a limit to what you wil devote time to a passable show like Fringe is going to struggle. It also doesn't help that when you watch Fringe it makes you realize you'd rather pull out an old better episode of XF.

But I will say Fringe might not be a juggernaut series but it gets more stuff right than V or Flash Forward.

 

[stj]

It seems to me that the myth stories include stuff like the Pattern, Massive Dynamic, William Bell, Mr. Jones, the Observer, ZFT, the cortexiphan trials, as well as Peter. (This list of names is meaningless enough they aren't spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen the show.) Some elements seem to have been dropped. Some characters seem to be completely different. The Big Story is draggy and pointlessly contorted, timefiller. (Yes, I know standalones are usually called filler. I really do think it tends to be the other way round.)

I suspect the praise for the mythology shows comes from people who have overlooked how the best shows are Walter shows. Mythology shows centered on Olivia suck just as much as the standalones. And the very best episode of the series, Peter, added practically nothing new to the mythology.

The problem with the standalones I think is that they tend to rely on Walter the Mad Scientist pulling answers out of his ass. That contradicts other (good) episodes' portrayal of Walter as a man suffering real mental illness or a man whose primary motivation is regaining his son's love. The standalones also have Peter around, who has no dramatic function apart from Walter. The Olivia episodes have a heroine who is supposed to be loved by everyone and who is the absolute center of the fictional universe. Like most such characters, the presentation is not quite so compelling to the audience as the writers who are in love with the character imagine.

Fringe has one good character, Walter. That's not much to build a multiyear series on.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Anyway, it's certainly your call but I'd highly recommend giving the show another chance. (Temis and others like you, I'm speaking to you! )

The problem is, I don't really like the actors, and since the main actors are still around...oh well, maybe when sci fi on TV really dries up, I'll check out the DVDs. I was wrong about my initial impressions of Chuck, for instance.

The thing with Fringe is its inconsistent. When it does the myth stuff it is really good. When it does the weird shit of the week one-offs they are weak and rehashes

Argh, that would drive me up the wall. Already saw the monster of the week on The X-Files. But still, there's no Duchovney and Anderson to get me through the weak stuff.

Fringe has one good character, Walter. That's not much to build a multiyear series on.

If only they could keep him and kill everyone else off. Get some kick-ass actors like Adrian Pasdar on the show. I can't stand the young male and female leads. She's bland, he's grubby.

 

[label]

Fringe is nowhere as good or consistent as TNG was in its third season.

I guess we're going to just have to agree to disagree because I think Season 2 of Fringe - so far - has been just as good as Season 3 of TNG. I went back and looked at the episodes of Season 3 of TNG and while you had some great episodes you also had some clunkers like "Ménage à Troi", "The Bonding" and a few others for instance.

I think "Peter" might have been a turning point but we'll see.

I agree with you here. Since "Peter", things have been consistently strong, though there were several good episodes before "Peter".

TNG to this day is the show that I measure all other episodic series by.

Right, so perhaps this isn't a good comparison as Fringe is turning more and more into a Serial show much more like DS9, which is my favorite Trek of all time.

TNG was consistent for 4 solid straight years with the worst episode merely being average.

I dunno about that, there were some pretty horrible episodes revolving around Lwaxana Trio as well as some other misfires occasionally with Data.

Where Fringe has excelled are with the myth stories. The writers seem to be on top of their game when they have to focus on the series unique mythology. Too bad they don't turn the series into a heavily serialized show like LOST--I think it could turn the series around in a major way

Totally agreed. I'd love to see them go that route.

Because the ratings aren't there and I can understand why. In this day and age a show needs to hit the road on all cylinders. When people have seen tv shows like LOST that can hit the road running and there are tons of other shows you want to watch and a limit to what you wil devote time to a passable show like Fringe is going to struggle.

I'm just saying people ought to have a bit more patience/faith based on whose involved in writing/producing the show.....they have a proven track record and just because it's taken them around a season or so to tweak the show so that it works really well shouldn't have turned people off so quickly. After all, outside of Lost it's the best sci-fi show on TV right now, easily.

 

[label]

The problem is, I don't really like the actors, and since the main actors are still around...

I can understand not liking Joshua Jackson or even Lance Reddick.....I didn't care much for Peter's character for most of Season 1 myself. I was ambivalent towards Oliva's character through much of Season 1 as well, but I don't know how anyone can't instantly love Walter's character. Noble does such an amazing job in that role.........you know how much I love Emerson's Ben Linus but I would put Noble's "Walter" character head to head with Ben any day of the week......especially this season.

If only they could keep him and kill everyone else off. Get some kick-ass actors like Adrian Pasdar on the show. I can't stand the young male and female leads. She's bland, he's grubby.

They've both gotten a little better. It's taken them a little longer to evolve into their respective roles and while they're still not nearly as strong as Walter, they are growing.

Let me put it this way, if you can sit through Chuck, Flash Forward or V you definitely owe it to yourself to give the series up to this point a shot because Season 2 - for the most part - has really raised the bar a couple notches and since "Peter", raised it a few more.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Fringe is nowhere as good or consistent as TNG was in its third season.

I guess we're going to just have to agree to disagree because I think Season 2 of Fringe - so far - has been just as good as Season 3 of TNG. I went back and looked at the episodes of Season 3 of TNG and while you had some great episodes you also had some clunkers like "Ménage à Troi", "The Bonding" and a few others for instance.

Fringe has been all over the map this season in terms of quality--We've had great episodes like August, Peter, Grey Matters, the season premiere, White Tulip but we also had really weak episodes bunched awfully close together that nearly turned me off of the show like the Dream episode, Snakehead, the 2nd episode of the season, the outer space energy episode etc.

TNG season 3 was consistent. I enjoyed every episode week in and week out. TNG also had more great/excellent episodes than Fringe has had--The Survivors, The Bonding, The Enemy, The Defector, Yesterday's Enterprise, Tin Man, The Best of Both Worlds.

But every season will have a few highs and one or two lows the key is the middle ground--Fringe has had a harder time churning out just solidly good episodes--not great or bad. With Fringe it is either or and that really is where TNG-3 beats it for me. Plus I liked the TNG characters more and the writers handled 8 characters better than Fringe has had with 4.