The Enterprise That Wasn't
- Thread starter Arpy
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Actually, no. What Cochrane is referred to as in "Metamorphosis" is "the discoverer of the space warp." The phrase "warp drive" is never uttered in the episode.
Which led me to an interesting supposition a couple of years ago: What if the "space warp" that Cochrane discovered was some sort of natural phenomenon, and he then worked backward from that to invent a mechanical form of warp drive? I'm picturing something like the way that Sisko and Dax stumbled upon the Wormhole in DS9.
What do you mean pre-Declaration? I’m googling the ship/station from the movie now — yeah, I think they look like they’d fit in nicely to this less fantastical tech era.
In the movie "Soldier" (1998, starring Kurt Russell) we see the use of a planet as a Junkyard Planet. That is, junk from Earth is dumped on the surface of this other planet.
Imagine an advanced civilization using, say, an airless moon as a junkyard. With the development of transwarp beaming, a vast number of (suddenly) obsolete transporters are dumped, even though they are still intact. To make these transporters functional again, the inputs needed would be power, and instructions.
If Earthlings came across this junkyard first, that would give Earth some leverage in negotiating with the other founding species. That would also explain why Archer's NX-01 Enterprise had such a fantastic piece of equipment.
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Of course, the idea that transporters may have come from a junkyard suggests that other very advanced devices may have come from the junkyard. Which ones?
The junkyard concept also suggests that these borrowed devices may have been rationed. in the Federation many or perhaps most of these devices were reserved for Star Fleet. Which might help explain why much of society seems familiar; transporters, for example, did not completely replace old style vehicles.
BTW, what if other advanced civilizations had left behind junkyards?
Star Fleet ships might actually have been patchworks. (Somewhat similar to the Pakleds). Which might form a basis for an alternative timeline.
The junkyard concept also suggests that these borrowed devices may have been rationed. in the Federation many or perhaps most of these devices were reserved for Star Fleet. Which might help explain why much of society seems familiar; transporters, for example, did not completely replace old style vehicles.
BTW, what if other advanced civilizations had left behind junkyards?
Star Fleet ships might actually have been patchworks. (Somewhat similar to the Pakleds). Which might form a basis for an alternative timeline.
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I'm still haven't been given up hole on retconning the Transporter to be more of a wormhole device that doesn't actually destroy anything.
I recall the technological levels of different species being listed in tiers. In the days of Archer's NX01 Enterprise, the Vulcans were In the top tier, having the most sophisticated technology. In the middle tier-having somewhat less sophisticated tech-were the Klingons and the Andorians. The bottom tier were the Earthlings and the Tellarites.
(Ring ships would be in a tier lower yet).
As with Babylon 5, I kind of like the idea of humans being in a lower technological tier. That gives us a kind of underdog status. Perhaps this could be part of an alternative timeline.
(Ring ships would be in a tier lower yet).
As with Babylon 5, I kind of like the idea of humans being in a lower technological tier. That gives us a kind of underdog status. Perhaps this could be part of an alternative timeline.
I’m still not sure how I feel about the matter/energy conversion thing. You are basically being destroyed in the process. It’s all YOUR matter converted to YOUR energy and being put together in exactly YOUR configuration down to the last quark I imagine...but still...that’s a copy of you using your substance, isn’t it? No one notices, not even you, but isn’t it?
A wormhole I think would negate that problem...or would it?
I dunno. But continuation of consciousness isn’t anything mystical, I don’t think. Every nigh theme we sleep, multiple times we dip into “subconsciousness” to dream but then into total “unconsciousness” (if I’m using the words right/go with me here) multiple times in between where we are effectively not thinking about anything at all.
I think having a wormhole or some push through a higher dimension would solve many problems.
It would fix the problem of killing the original and making a copy. We do see some instances of people having a conversation while beaming.
It would fix the problem of being able to beam to a location without a receiving transporter pad. Imagine a 3D printer that has to print an object with the print head 100 miles away from the object you're printing. Also the print head and the object you are printing are moving at different speeds. Oh, and you need to be able to print at subatomic level resolution. It's just unfathomably ridiculous.
It would also solve the problem of the transporter basically being a live forever machine. You could just keep beaming back to a younger version of yourself.
So instead if it just pushed you into a higher dimension and popped you out at the coordinates it fixes a lot of those problems. But on the other hand it doesn't account for a lot of the behaviour we see in the Star Trek universe. Transporters filtering out bad DNA, de-aging people, making copies of people, etc.
Quora has a number of discussions regarding back engineering of UFOs.
Consider the title How Would We Approach Reverse Engineering Alien Technology If We Gained Access To It.
I will quickly summarize the first few paragraphs that were written by Nick Nielsen:
Analysis of the craft will begin with an inspection, starting with visible light. Then moving on to other passive means of collecting information.
After that, attempting more active measures. The first idea would be to disassemble the craft. If that wasn't feasible, then other means would be attempted, such as sawing, grinding, or drilling. If drilling worked, you would try chemical analysis of the tailings.
Supposing your analysis yielded useful information, what next? Quoting Nielsen:
"If you were able to puzzle out some aspects of the alien technology, we would try to build fragments on our own, testing what this technology could do on a small and limited scale, and integrating the various subsystems as we begin to understand how they functioned individually and together with other subsystems. It is entirely possible that we might not understand how the technology functions on the whole while deriving useful science and technology from the parts that we can understand."
Consider the title How Would We Approach Reverse Engineering Alien Technology If We Gained Access To It.
I will quickly summarize the first few paragraphs that were written by Nick Nielsen:
Analysis of the craft will begin with an inspection, starting with visible light. Then moving on to other passive means of collecting information.
After that, attempting more active measures. The first idea would be to disassemble the craft. If that wasn't feasible, then other means would be attempted, such as sawing, grinding, or drilling. If drilling worked, you would try chemical analysis of the tailings.
Supposing your analysis yielded useful information, what next? Quoting Nielsen:
"If you were able to puzzle out some aspects of the alien technology, we would try to build fragments on our own, testing what this technology could do on a small and limited scale, and integrating the various subsystems as we begin to understand how they functioned individually and together with other subsystems. It is entirely possible that we might not understand how the technology functions on the whole while deriving useful science and technology from the parts that we can understand."
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While I'm not hot about everyone reverse-engineering old tech, there is something I can contribute to this, I think.
In a old Space MMO I used to play, StarQuest Online, they came up with a good enough excuse for teleporters/transporters. Here's some fluff text that still survives:
"Teleportation involves similar graviton-producing generators as a hyperdrive. However, instead of creating a single "bubble" of quanta universe, it creates two, one within the other.
The "primary bubble" is extended from the projector to the target area. The "secondary bubble" is created at the site where transit is to be completed. A person, persons, or objects within the primary bubble creation zone (typically a rectangular area, marked by a noticeable green "circuitry pattern" glow) instantly converts to a quantum energy-state.
Nearly simultaneously, they are sent into the secondary bubble. The primary bubble is then de-energized and within micro-seconds, the secondary bubble also de-energized at the target site. The transported material or person then finds themselves at the target site. Since virtually no time passes, there is no need for EVA suits in the micro-seconds that the person is outside of our Universe. The maximum range of use is 8,000 kilometers."
"Research into Quantum Level VI hyperspace began almost immediately after Quantum V was discovered. The energy requirements for reaching this quanta have proven to be the far less than for Quantum V, on the order of one megajoule per kilogram, however the Quantum VI dimension is very unstable, and vanishes within seconds of its creation, in effect, a new Quantum VI universe is created each time an object is shifted into this continuum. These created Quantum VI universes are also exponentially smaller than those of Quantum V, the largest ever created achieved only a diameter of 10,000 kilometers. Any matter transferred into a Quantum VI continuum would immediately reappear, position unchanged, when the quanta collapsed.
Ryl'Atti scientists later discovered in 2165 that it was possible to create a second Quantum VI universe within an initial Quantum VI "bubble". The second quanta could be created anywhere inside the first, any matter transferred into the first quanta would be transferred to the second when the initial "bubble" collapsed, and would then be transferred back to normal space upon the collapse of the second quanta. The matter would then reappear at the location of the second quanta. This allowed the nearly instantaneous teleportation of an object to a distance of approximately 10,000 kilometers. This discovery led to the development of teleporter technology."
" Operation
1. Coordinates are locked via the ship or base sensors. The computers automatically focus the energy field generators.
2. A negative energy field is initiated, creating the "primary bubble". Transportees (or material) are removed from our space-time continuum.
3. The event horizon quantum split occurs, creating the "secondary bubble" at the target point.
4. Continuum transit occurs, and the transportees (or material) move from the primary bubble to the secondary bubble.
5. The event horizon shifts, collapsing the primary bubble.
6. The energy field of the secondary bubble collapses.
7. And transit is complete."
A junkyard origin for the transporter is intriguing, although never quite suggested on screen.
Not a true black box any longer by the time our heroes get to it, of course. Perhaps the Vulcans found some junk they reverse-engineered across the centuries, and now know how to built more, but they still can't for the life of them figure out how and why it works. And humans get these reverse-engineered things from Vulcans, complete with all those alien features the Vulcans never fully figured out (and thus were unable to prune out from the designs) - and, true to their risk-taking nature, activate plenty, thus taking the technology forward in leaps and bounds.
As for the nature of the transporter as shown, it's mentioned a couple of times that beaming out as pure energy is actually highly unusual. A wormhole machine is actually far more likely - although we also get the technobabble and its backstage expansion that says the machine just turns people into "phased" ghosts that then travel through walls and space and whatnot before again "phasing" back, whatever that means. A lot of Star Trek technology involves "phasing", so it's not likely to be all black box. But the original inspiration might well be alien, and some of the key applications might still be mysteries to their users. Although perhaps only to the degree that engineers half a century after the invention of the aeroplane still debated why a machine with wings actually stays up in air.
Timo Saloniemi
Not a true black box any longer by the time our heroes get to it, of course. Perhaps the Vulcans found some junk they reverse-engineered across the centuries, and now know how to built more, but they still can't for the life of them figure out how and why it works. And humans get these reverse-engineered things from Vulcans, complete with all those alien features the Vulcans never fully figured out (and thus were unable to prune out from the designs) - and, true to their risk-taking nature, activate plenty, thus taking the technology forward in leaps and bounds.
As for the nature of the transporter as shown, it's mentioned a couple of times that beaming out as pure energy is actually highly unusual. A wormhole machine is actually far more likely - although we also get the technobabble and its backstage expansion that says the machine just turns people into "phased" ghosts that then travel through walls and space and whatnot before again "phasing" back, whatever that means. A lot of Star Trek technology involves "phasing", so it's not likely to be all black box. But the original inspiration might well be alien, and some of the key applications might still be mysteries to their users. Although perhaps only to the degree that engineers half a century after the invention of the aeroplane still debated why a machine with wings actually stays up in air.
Timo Saloniemi
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Visually, the transporter used by Gary 7 may be the closest to a wormhole or higher dimension effect.
I can imagine an alternative timeline in which World War III is avoided.
Projects that have been proposed using current technology:
1. Manned flyby of Venus.
2. Manned Venus orbiter.
3. Rendezvous with an Earth approaching asteroid.
4. Manned flyby of Mars.
5. Manned rendezvous with the moons of Mars.
6. Manned landing on Mars.
There have been studies of Moon bases and Mars bases.
Imagine the first warp flight after the Mars outpost is established. This attracts the attention of the Vulcans and leads to First Contact.
Eventually, Earth sends a ring ship to Alpha Centauri. This leads to:
1. Second contact with the Vulcans-at Alpha Centauri.
2. First contact with Tellarites-at Alpha Centauri.
Between Earth and Alpha Centauri I can imagine expeditions to rogue planets. This might have a vibe somewhat similar to Red Dwarf, but including evidence of (lost) high tech civilization.
Projects that have been proposed using current technology:
1. Manned flyby of Venus.
2. Manned Venus orbiter.
3. Rendezvous with an Earth approaching asteroid.
4. Manned flyby of Mars.
5. Manned rendezvous with the moons of Mars.
6. Manned landing on Mars.
There have been studies of Moon bases and Mars bases.
Imagine the first warp flight after the Mars outpost is established. This attracts the attention of the Vulcans and leads to First Contact.
Eventually, Earth sends a ring ship to Alpha Centauri. This leads to:
1. Second contact with the Vulcans-at Alpha Centauri.
2. First contact with Tellarites-at Alpha Centauri.
Between Earth and Alpha Centauri I can imagine expeditions to rogue planets. This might have a vibe somewhat similar to Red Dwarf, but including evidence of (lost) high tech civilization.
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I like this
The Vulcan High Command might be aware of two different species that define borders of known space. These species are combative but mysterious. The physical appearances of these species are unknown. They are referred to as the "Romulans" and the "Andorians".
The Klingon Empire is as of yet unknown to the Vulcans.
The Klingon Empire is as of yet unknown to the Vulcans.
I still think the names "Romulans" and "Vulcan(ian)" have to come from humans. For obvious reasons.
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