The Enterprise as the Federation Flagship

[C.E. Evans]

Yet NCC-1305-E was dialogue read out loud and clear, while the five-digit number was obscure computer graphics (from a computer known to have been fatally damaged by a software weapon at that!)...

Actually, the "obscure" computer graphics was not obscure at all, but quite prominently displayed by a computer that hadn't been damaged by a software weapon (the Enterprise's at the very start of the episode).
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x11/contagion_hd_004.jpg

even on the Enterprise bridge main viewscreen for awhile for all to see:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x11/contagion_hd_144.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x11/contagion_hd_145.jpg

Meanwhile, the earlier illusionary registry read aloud by Riker could be taken as proof, even after the fact, that it was a fake.

 

[BillJ]

Yet NCC-1305-E was dialogue read out loud and clear, while the five-digit number was obscure computer graphics (from a computer known to have been fatally damaged by a software weapon at that!)...

Actually, the "obscure" computer graphics was not obscure at all, but quite prominently displayed by a computer that hadn't been damaged by a software weapon (the Enterprise's at the very start of the episode).
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x11/contagion_hd_004.jpg

even on the Enterprise bridge main viewscreen for awhile for all to see:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x11/contagion_hd_144.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x11/contagion_hd_145.jpg

Meanwhile, the earlier illusionary registry read aloud by Riker could be taken as proof, even after the fact, that it was a fake.

I tend to accept the 71807 registry for the Yamato. It's silly to think that anyone knows the registry of every starship in Starfleet. Riker read wrong information.

 

[Ithekro]

Yet the NX-01A as "Dauntless" didn't phase Janeway or any of her crew at all. Paris and a Kim seem to have a lot of history background knowledge, with Earth spaceflight knowledge being a special thing taught even in grade school (Friendship One's message taught in third grade). Or that even having those numbers at all doesn't even cross any warning bells at all means it seems reasonable for Starfleet.

 

[doubleohfive]

I preferred it when the ship was just another ship, and not "special".

+1

I was always under the impression that during TOS, she was just one of 12 Constitution-class starships, and possibly the only one to return home after it's tour of duty. Then, as a result, later the Enterprise arrowhead insignia was adopted by all of Starfleet in honor of 1701's historic voyage.

By the time of the movies, it was a more cynical universe and the Enterprise was still just another ship, but one Kirk obviously felt great attachment to, but one that Starfleet viewed solely as an asset to be used, whether as a training vessel or not.

By the time of TUC, she's old and ready to be scuttled with little ceremony or fanfare.

I never got the impression that the Enterprise-B was the flagship either, nor that Harriman was the kind of officer Starfleet would entrust with leading the fleet in such a capacity. And since there's not much info to go on re: the Enterprise-C or Captain Garrett in this capacity either, it's safe to say they were probably just like Kirk - regular captains commanding regular ships in the fleet.

It wasn't till TNG that any mention was made of the Enterprise as the fleet's flagship was made by anyone who would be in a position to say so. And that's fine. I'm cool with the Enterprise-D being the flagship. I don't know if the same would apply to the Enterprise-E though.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

[The Wormhole]

I never got the impression that the Enterprise-B was the flagship either,

I've always assumed it must have been based on the press coverage its launch received. Or is every new starship's launch that much of a media event?

 

[doubleohfive]

I thought the press attention was more because it was "the first Enterprise in thirty years without James T. Kirk in command" and that it was a special occasion because he was there to "send her on her way."

 

[Timo]

She was a big ship, and probably an expensive one as well. Starfleet would do well to call positive attention to her launch, through choosing an alluring name, inviting a celebrity aboard, and offering plenty of Aldebaran whiskey at the opening buffet.

displayed by a computer that hadn't been damaged by a software weapon (the Enterprise's at the very start of the episode).

Never mind that the Enterprise probably was damaged at that point already (mere communications with an infected ship seem to suffice), the point is that the log would be the product of the damaged Yamato computer...

Riker read wrong information.

1) That's extremely specific information - how could it be "wrong"? Did he pull it out of his ass?
2) He didn't - he read it off the hull of the ship right in front of him (we can't do that from the dark image, but the angles would allow him to do it)!
3) And even if it were a tad off, Riker seems to believe that there are other letter-suffix registries in Starfleet besides NCC-1701; if not on the Yamato, then on some other ship. How could he be wrong about something like that?

Yet the NX-01A as "Dauntless" didn't phase Janeway or any of her crew at all. Paris and a Kim seem to have a lot of history background knowledge, with Earth spaceflight knowledge being a special thing taught even in grade school (Friendship One's message taught in third grade). Or that even having those numbers at all doesn't even cross any warning bells at all means it seems reasonable for Starfleet.

Why wouldn't a registry NX-01A be "reasonable for Starfleet"? It's not as if Starfleet is obligated to follow any particular registry scheme for an all-new category of spacecraft - apparently, the first-ever slipstream ship.

The Dauntless isn't "history" by any stretch of the term - it's "future". Janeway getting "alarm bells" about something like that sounds awfully silly. The ship could have been registered BHD-22 or 9-K, and Janeway still wouldn't have any legitimate cause for concern.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

displayed by a computer that hadn't been damaged by a software weapon (the Enterprise's at the very start of the episode).

Never mind that the Enterprise probably was damaged at that point already (mere communications with an infected ship seem to suffice), the point is that the log would be the product of the damaged Yamato computer...

No, the point is that there was nothing wrong with the information being presented at the time. Unlike the Yamato, it took awhile for the Enterprise to be infected as she wasn't directly scanned by the alien probe.

Riker seems to believe that there are other letter-suffix registries in Starfleet besides NCC-1701; if not on the Yamato, then on some other ship. How could he be wrong about something like that?

It may simply have been a case of Riker not knowing the registry number of every single ship in Starfleet history. Even Data has to sometimes look things up in the ship's computer because he doesn't know them immediately.

 

[Timo]

The onset of problems was gradual and not recognized for what it was at first. A few details in the logs going bonkers would be perfectly consistent with what was going on.

The main thing still remains that the material came from a corrupt computer in the first place...

We can assume Starfleet changed the registry of this particular ship between the episodes, since the presence of NCC-1305-E on her in the previous one is very explicit. It seems they did it once already anyway - the remastering of the episodes has revealed previously illegible Okudagram data on a starship Yamato, NCC-24383. Or perhaps that one was the Yamato-D, lost shortly before "Contagion" and prompting the renaming and re-registering of the brand-new Galaxy?

Or we can assume that our heroes back then were already under the influence of Nagilum and not just seeing visual illusions, but having confused thoughts as well. Or perhaps Nagilum replaced all of them with their doppelgängers for the bridge scene, like it replaced Troi and Data later on?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

The onset of problems was gradual and not recognized for what it was at first. A few details in the logs going bonkers would be perfectly consistent with what was going on.

Not necessarily, and it really didn't seem so until later in the episode.

The main thing still remains that the material came from a corrupt computer in the first place...

Actually, the main thing was that it didn't have anything to do with the Yamato's registry.

We can assume Starfleet changed the registry of this particular ship between the episodes, since the presence of NCC-1305-E on her in the previous one is very explicit.

What we really can go by is that the 1305-E registry for the Yamato was incorrect and wasn't caught until later (both offscreen and onscreen).

 

[Timo]

Sorry, that won't fly, not onscreen/in-universe. There's no other way for NCC-1305-E to be "incorrect" than for all of our bridge heroes - Riker, Picard, Worf, Wesley, Data - to be out of their minds. And story logic suggests only Worf was out of his mind that day (some sort of a Klingon thing).

I'd much rather have hiccuping computers than the whole bunch of heroes (including Data) going insane or otherwise failing to notice that NCC-1305-E isn't the chief identifying feature of the starship Yamato, like Riker establishes it to be.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ithekro]

The last one is speculated to be the old Enterprise but renamed following the formation of the Federation. Why it was renamed it unknown. Perhaps the name "Enterprise" was to be used on a newer starship and the NX-01 was to remain "active" in Starfleet (perhaps in a similar way as the sailing frigate USS Constitution is active in the US Navy) and thus the old Enterprise was renamed "Dauntless" based on its activities during its ten years of service in Earth's Starfleet and the Romulan War.

Except TATV makes it clear Enterprise NX-01 was decommissioned when the Federation was founded and turned into a museum ship.

USS Constitution has been that. She's also been a barracks ship with all her masts removed and her upper works replaced by what would looke like a house. She was later rebuilt to look more or less how she did in 1812 or so. She also had her name changes around 1920 when the US Navy was going to build a new battlecruiser named USS Constitition. However that ship was cancelled and the old sailing frigate from 1797 got her name back and has kept it to the present day. She is basically a museum ship that is on the active list in the US Navy today. Doubles as a sort of training ship as well as a public relations vessel. She can operate under her own sail and can be armed with cannon. While outdated in the extreme, she could still do damage if actual cannon balls or shot was put in those cannons. Not to any modern naval vessels, but there there plenty of thing that it could damage.

The Earth starship Enterprise could have followed a similar path. The indication that one still exists is there via Troi, but she doesn't remember which one it was...which seems odd unless there was more that one survivor of the class, or if it wasn't named Enterprise anymore (even Troi would have clued in on the name "Enterprise" after that many years serving on a ship with that name). If she was "active" (in the sailing ship Constitution meaning of the word) around 2245, she might have been renamed to give up that name to the NCC-1701 Enterprise.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Sorry, that won't fly, not onscreen/in-universe.

Actually, it not only flies, but soars both onscreen and in-universe. It's easily a case of it being a mistake that wasn't immediately caught. It happens all the time.

 

[Timo]

The indication that one still exists is there via Troi, but she doesn't remember which one it was...

Hmh? Which line of "TATV" would this be? This one?

Troi: "I remember seeing one of these in a photograph."
Riker: "Kirk's ship had them, I think."

That doesn't sound like it - Kirk's ship didn't have Archer's ships aboard, either in plural or singular. What Troi is talking about is the Spock-style viewing hood... And she has only seen it in a photograph! It's a feature apparently found on many classes of ship, and unrelated to their names or registry numbers, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Timo]

It's easily a case of it being a mistake that wasn't immediately caught. It happens all the time.

Are we still speaking in-universe? Because there it doesn't, and cannot.

Do you remember the circumstances? Riker sees a ship; he reads the registry off the hull out loud; he uses this as his chief argument to his fellow officers that the ship is the Yamato. How could that be a "mistake"?

It's like saying that Riker opened the television, read out the opening credits of a TV show saying "Married... With Children", turned around, and told Picard "See, it's Star Trek!"...

Timo Salloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

It's easily a case of it being a mistake that wasn't immediately caught. It happens all the time.

Are we still speaking in-universe?

Yep. Mistakes do happen in-universe too.

 

[Timo]

So Riker, Picard, Worf, Wesley and Data are idiots? (When the story only requires Worf to be?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

So Riker, Picard, Worf, Wesley and Data are idiots?

Nah, they just weren't familiar with the Yamato's registry at the time.

 

[BillJ]

Sorry, that won't fly, not onscreen/in-universe. There's no other way for NCC-1305-E to be "incorrect" than for all of our bridge heroes - Riker, Picard, Worf, Wesley, Data - to be out of their minds. And story logic suggests only Worf was out of his mind that day (some sort of a Klingon thing).

I'd much rather have hiccuping computers than the whole bunch of heroes (including Data) going insane or otherwise failing to notice that NCC-1305-E isn't the chief identifying feature of the starship Yamato, like Riker establishes it to be.

People make mistakes. Riker reads it off the hull of the ship, it's obvious he doesn't know the Yamato registry and no one else cares.

This simply isn't the deep clusterfuck you want it to be.

 

[Timo]

Others might not care, but Riker is convinced he knows the registry. If he were convinced it was NCC-12345, there would be no problem. But he is convinced it has a letter suffix, which is flat out impossible unless letter suffices do exist in Starfleet outside the Enterprise continuum.

And we know Riker is not mistaken, or thinking back to some older registry, or anticipating a change that Starfleet decided not to make - the registry does read NCC-1305-E on the hull, as he first reads it, then says it. Or does he have comprehension problems (i.e. he's an idiot)? Does everybody watching that viewscreen have comprehension problems (i.e. they are all idiots)?

What next? Should we accept Riker being "mistaken" about whether Betazoids are "telepathic" or "acrobatic"? That would be a lesser mistake, certainly.

Timo Saloniemi