But not for one word being used for two different versions of the same thing (Starfleet vessel) as we're discussing.
The Enterprise as the Federation Flagship
- Thread starter Joel_Kirk
- Start date
But not for one word being used for two different versions of the same thing (Starfleet vessel) as we're discussing.
...So it's actually even more confusing, and still meekly accepted. Just like "tanker" might refer to a wide range of vehicles (ships, planes, automobiles) dedicated to a task, or to a person driving a tank or a person driving a tanker, it has the potential to create maximal confusion; "flagship" won't detract anybody from thinking "Ah, it's a starship! And an important one at that.". 
Actually, it is, because it's just (once again) a matter of context, of which particular Starfleet vessel that's being discussed in a conversation.
Sure, if that usage were imposed from without. Less apparent is a reason the usage would evolve on its own.
But that's not parallel to the "ensign" example that was used above. "Flag officer flagships" and "prestige flagships" would be subsets of Starfleet vessels. "Ensign the flag" an "ensign the rank" are not part of the same set, unless it's "things that are called 'ensign.'" If you don't see the distinction then I'll not pursue this further.
Sure it is. It's totally parallel. A word can mean more than one thing.
No need to get upset. It's just a simple case of some words developing different meanings.
Language does evolve over time, especially after a few centuries.
Actually, there's no distinction. You can always arbitrarily define a set that satisfies your argumentative urges: "things called ensign" is broad, while "military things called ensign and found aboard ships, usually fluttering a lot" is narrow, at least equal in narrowness to the flagship thing.
The military is completely happy with the shortcomings of the English language on too many things to count. Being unhappy about two or more usages of flagship doesn't appear a likely prospect at all.
Timo Saloniemi
And yet, no one has come up with a real example of the same word being used for two distinct versions of one thing.
Not that I really care, it is obvious that the TNG usage was intended to imply prestige. I just think it was a poor choice on some writer's part. If they had stuck with the traditional naval usage this wouldn't be debated periodically over the years. But the desire to give Enterprise and crew some kind of celebrity status in their world has always rubbed me the wrong way.
That's a good example of what I'm talking about. In WW2 when common infantry arms were the "rifle, caliber .30, M1" and "carbine, caliber .30, M1," the smaller weapon was invariable spoken of as the "M1 carbine" or just "carbine" to avoid confusion.
I'm not sure what this refers to? British names stuck to a few US aircraft but the letter-number designations were more commonly used by far for reference within US forces.
Several people have, but you've ignored them.
Mostly the tanks. At the start of the Lend Lease program we were sending over tanks to help in Africa. We had M3 medium tanks, and M3 light tanks, M3 half-track personel carriers, as well as M3 submachine gun, M3 fightig knife, M3 gas mask, and so on. Most are jus listed as "M3" on the order forms, so you can't tell if you are getting a shipment of 30 light tanks, or 30 gas maskes until you see the cargo ship.
The British started to lable the tanks by naming them after American generals. The M3 light tank became the Stuart. The M3 medium tank became the Lee or Grant depending on the turret design. And the later M4 medium tank became the famous and plentiful Sherman.
No, only the Enterprises reuse registry numbers.
Only known ships to get their old number reused are USS Enterprise (NCC-1701), USS Yamato (NCC-1305), and a fake in USS Dauntless (NX-01).
The last one is speculated to be the old Enterprise but renamed following the formation of the Federation. Why it was renamed it unknown. Perhaps the name "Enterprise" was to be used on a newer starship and the NX-01 was to remain "active" in Starfleet (perhaps in a similar way as the sailing frigate USS Constitution is active in the US Navy) and thus the old Enterprise was renamed "Dauntless" based on its activities during its ten years of service in Earth's Starfleet and the Romulan War.
The question would be, "why are the number reused?" One theory is to insert a name into an existing construction project without altering that classes numbering pattern (say the USS Enterprise and Yamato were added to the Galaxy-class project ahead of other ships that were already ordered and both were ordered to be completed before any of the other ships save the Galaxy prototpe. All the ther ships have numbers in the 70000s or 71000s it seems. So instead of having these two ships added to the end of the order number, but being built first, they instead give them special legacy numbers and ignore any problems with their existing numbering system) This makes little sense, but Starfleet's numbering system hasn't made sense in decades.
The last one is speculated to be the old Enterprise but renamed following the formation of the Federation. Why it was renamed it unknown. Perhaps the name "Enterprise" was to be used on a newer starship and the NX-01 was to remain "active" in Starfleet (perhaps in a similar way as the sailing frigate USS Constitution is active in the US Navy) and thus the old Enterprise was renamed "Dauntless" based on its activities during its ten years of service in Earth's Starfleet and the Romulan War.
The question would be, "why are the number reused?" One theory is to insert a name into an existing construction project without altering that classes numbering pattern (say the USS Enterprise and Yamato were added to the Galaxy-class project ahead of other ships that were already ordered and both were ordered to be completed before any of the other ships save the Galaxy prototpe. All the ther ships have numbers in the 70000s or 71000s it seems. So instead of having these two ships added to the end of the order number, but being built first, they instead give them special legacy numbers and ignore any problems with their existing numbering system) This makes little sense, but Starfleet's numbering system hasn't made sense in decades.
The Yamato's registry was retconned onscreen as NCC-71807 when she actually appeared in a later episode. The earlier 1305-E number of a fake Yamato was an early script draft error that snuck past the editor.
Yet NCC-1305-E was dialogue read out loud and clear, while the five-digit number was obscure computer graphics (from a computer known to have been fatally damaged by a software weapon at that!)...
It's probably a bit of a stretch to say that Dauntless, NX-01, would be "recycled". We know of no ship with the registry NX-01 in the UFP Starfleet for starters; nor is there a canonical Dauntless in Starfleet history; the registry is fake to begin with; and it's actually NX-01A, an all-new format different from NCC-1701-A.
The UESF ship supposedly was retired before any UFP Starfleet came to be. Whether that later organization made any use of the Enterprise class, and what it chose to call that class, canon doesn't tell (but novels suggest the class was modified, adopted for UFP SF, and dubbed the Columbia class for completely esoteric reasons, the original Columbia having already been lost in action).
Timo Saloniemi
It's probably a bit of a stretch to say that Dauntless, NX-01, would be "recycled". We know of no ship with the registry NX-01 in the UFP Starfleet for starters; nor is there a canonical Dauntless in Starfleet history; the registry is fake to begin with; and it's actually NX-01A, an all-new format different from NCC-1701-A.
The UESF ship supposedly was retired before any UFP Starfleet came to be. Whether that later organization made any use of the Enterprise class, and what it chose to call that class, canon doesn't tell (but novels suggest the class was modified, adopted for UFP SF, and dubbed the Columbia class for completely esoteric reasons, the original Columbia having already been lost in action).
Timo Saloniemi
Except TATV makes it clear Enterprise NX-01 was decommissioned when the Federation was founded and turned into a museum ship.
Similar threads
