The Enterprise-A in PIC

[Galileo7]

TNG 1701-D Bridge:
https://hailingfrequenciesopen.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/3a815-enterprise-d-bridge.jpg

Generations 1701-D Bridge:
https://hailingfrequenciesopen.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/2be54-ed-bridge-generations.jpg

 

[Macintosh]

I could be wrong but I just assumed the Generations bridge was just using the modifications of the future E-D from All Good Things which has the side displays? My assumption is it made a change for the big screen and/or they couldn't be bothered changing it?

The future Enterprise-D bridge from TNG: "All Good Things" did not have the side displays.

It had extruded wall units and horseshoe embellishments that were originally built for some of the alternate bridges in TNG: "Parallels". They did keep the platform beneath the centre chairs for Generations.

Interestingly though we know the future bridge scenes were filmed first for "AGT", presumably due to Denise Crosby's availability. There's a goof where you can see the future door signage with its distinctive full-length vertical stripe on the past bridge. So it can't have been a case of "they couldn't be bothered changing it". Especially as the central raised platform itself was modified with updated colour panelling and lighting.

 

[Captain Crow]

Secondly I've never been able to pick it but apparently the Amagosa observatory from Generations is a redressed Enterprise-A bridge? I've struggled to see it but maybe it's the lighting and the damaged components that hides it.

It's easily missable as the set was gutted with only the floor, a few handrail struts, some of the light up wall struts, and the ceiling ring remaining.

In this shot you can kind of make out part of the floor pit area, a couple of handrail struts, and three of the light up wall struts (one behind Riker, one to screen left of Riker, one on the upper right) holding up the ceiling ring.

In this shot you can see the bottom of the ceiling ring still has the trapezoidal and tapered box lighting fixtures...

...the set had in its Enterprise-B setup...

... and its STVI: TUC Enterprise-A setup.

 

[Lord Garth]

This video FINALLY explains why the Constitution II Class went out of service. When this guy lays it out, it all makes sense. Basically, Starfleet tried to make 2270s technology fit within a 2240s design, and it ended up with the warp core right behind the torpedo launcher. Making it worse, top half of warp core is positioned right inside the neck. Not a lot of protection from within or without. In the TOS Enterprise, the warp engines were positioned in the back of the ship, nowhere near anything else.

This video goes into a lot more, but what I described above is the #1 thing.

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So I don't think it mattered how new or old the Enterprise-A was, it was decommissioned because Starfleet deemed the general design to be too impractical overall.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

As beautiful as the USS Enterprise-A is, there is too much stuff crammed into the StarDrive section where one wrong hit could send the entire StarShip into "KA-BOOM!".

You definitely shouldn't put that many critical systems that can go "BOOM" near each other if possible.

Yes, that would make your StarDrive section larger, but it would be safer in a worst case scenario during combat.

 

[Racefuel]

This video FINALLY explains why the Constitution II Class went out of service. When this guy lays it out, it all makes sense. Basically, Starfleet tried to make 2270s technology fit within a 2240s design, and it ended up with the warp core right behind the torpedo launcher. Making it worse, top half of warp core is positioned right inside the neck. Not a lot of protection from within or without. In the TOS Enterprise, the warp engines were positioned in the back of the ship, nowhere near anything else.

This video goes into a lot more, but what I described above is the #1 thing.

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So I don't think it mattered how new or old the Enterprise-A was, it was decommissioned because Starfleet deemed the general design to be too impractical overall.

Lots of assumption and headcanon in this, with some reasonable deduction.

However..it should be noted we never have actually received an in-universe explanation as to why the Constitution II's were retired..they just were.

 

[Lord Garth]

Lots of assumption and headcanon in this, with some reasonable deduction.

However..it should be noted we never have actually received an in-universe explanation as to why the Constitution II's were retired..they just were.

Unless we see the TOS Movie Era again, or the immediately post-TOS Movie Era, and they offer a different explanation, the explanation in the YouTube video works for me.

It also explains to me why the Constitution III Class has a thicker neck, as well as a thicker stardrive. In the Picard Era, they want their new ships to go back to angles and harder lines (much like with what's happened with cars IRL, after an obsession with making things more and more aerodynamic). So that's what probably led them to bring back the Constitution Class and finally find a way to make it work in the "current" era.

The Enterprise-F is the ultimate in aerodynamics and its bloated, "I look like a giant shrimp in space!" aesthetic makes it look as late-24th Century as you can get. The Enterprise-G, and the Constitution Class in general, are a direct reaction to that, trying to get as far away from it as possible.

 

[David cgc]

Lots of assumption and headcanon in this, with some reasonable deduction.

However..it should be noted we never have actually received an in-universe explanation as to why the Constitution II's were retired..they just were.

... not seen in any episodes after "Best of Both Worlds, Part II." Not every thing we don't see for a while should be assumed to have some massive flaw that led to all examples of it being shoved into a landfill like unsold E.T. video games.

Earth Spacedock wasn't seen for, what, forty years between DSC and TSFS, and then again for a hundred and five between TUC and PIC, did Q make it vanish then come back? Were there only three classes of starship (and one prototype) in service between TMP and TUC? Did the BoBW classes and the Norway only have one each built, since we only saw them one time? Was there a problem with the Ambassador class that took a half-century to discover and led to a fleet-wide recall? Why did they keep putting those circular docking ports on ships, since Starfleet went a hundred and fifteen years without using a single Travel Pod?

 

[Macintosh]

This video FINALLY explains why the Constitution II Class went out of service. When this guy lays it out, it all makes sense. Basically, Starfleet tried to make 2270s technology fit within a 2240s design, and it ended up with the warp core right behind the torpedo launcher. Making it worse, top half of warp core is positioned right inside the neck. Not a lot of protection from within or without. In the TOS Enterprise, the warp engines were positioned in the back of the ship, nowhere near anything else.

This video goes into a lot more, but what I described above is the #1 thing.

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So I don't think it mattered how new or old the Enterprise-A was, it was decommissioned because Starfleet deemed the general design to be too impractical overall.

The TOS Enterprise also had some questionable design decisions regarding its warp core, which must surely be right behind the shuttlebay where the nacelle pylons attach. An accident in the shuttlebay, or a shuttle crashing, could have had serious implications there.

Though I have wondered why the refit warp core wasn't just a horizontal shaft through the centre of the engineering hull where it would be well protected. Impulse engines clearly don't need warp plasma to operate effectively, and the Constitution neck is so thin it's a major structural vulnerability even without the warp core running through it.

See also – virtually every starship class sticking the antimatter at the "bottom". Next to the hull. Where it can be shot at.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

Isn't the reason for the warp core being placed where it is so that it can be ejected as fast as possible in any emergency or tactical situation? I know I wouldn't want the risk of the containment fields being ruptured and having some kind of obstruction in the path of the core ejection.

 

[Macintosh]

Isn't the reason for the warp core being placed where it is so that it can be ejected as fast as possible in any emergency or tactical situation? I know I wouldn't want the risk of the containment fields being ruptured and having some kind of obstruction in the path of the core ejection.

Warp core ejection wasn't a thing until TNG. There's no panel or ejection hatch on the refit Enterprise that could allow for it. And remember its warp core is actually T-shaped. The original idea was that rather than eject the warp core you'd just separate the saucer section, which was similarly an emergency last resort manoeuvre.

 

[drt]

The refit was supposed to have it's M/AM reactor at the bottom of the secondary hull, the glowy blue tubes were just plasma conduits.

Warp core ejection was always kinda dumb, none of the reactants were stored in it, if things went south they should have stopped fueling it, then it essentially becomes a big empty tube. Most of the "warp core breech" problems should have been solved by simply dumping the antimatter storage.

 

[Macintosh]

The refit was supposed to have it's M/AM reactor at the bottom of the secondary hull, the glowy blue tubes were just plasma conduits.

It depends what source you read. Some blueprints put the matter at the top (by the impulse engines, which makes sense because in a saucer separation they'd need fuel) with the antimatter at the bottom. If I recall correctly Probert, Taylor, and Kimble's original concept for the refit Enterprise layout was that the "matter/antimatter storage facility" was at the bottom of the secondary hull, but that their mixing occurred throughout the vertical and horizontal conduits (hence the term intermix shaft), and this continuous and highly controlled mixing throughout the entire core structure was the "secret sauce" for the new warp core being a big improvement over previous generations.

Which thinking about it must mean that the TMP warp core may have had a surprisingly complex internal structure, rather than simply being "big glowly pipes". I'm picturing something like a cross between the fused silica components of a nuclear lightbulb nuclear rocket and the interior of a steam locomotive boiler...

 

[Captain Crow]

Basically, Starfleet tried to make 2270s technology fit within a 2240s design, and it ended up with the warp core right behind the torpedo launcher. Making it worse, top half of warp core is positioned right inside the neck.

That would only be an issue for earlier Constitution IIs based off the 1701 redesign. The ST: TNG style warp core later Constitution IIs like the 1701-A had would easily fit in just the secondary hull.

Core on deck 18. Matter feed stretches through decks 17 and 16 to a storage unit on deck 15. Anti-matter feed stretches through decks 19 and 20 to an ejectable storage unit on deck 21

 

[Ennex]

I feel really silly now, for years I thought the side panels were in AGT. Maybe it's because I'd watch Generations right aftee the final episode. Cleared that up!

The future Enterprise-D bridge from TNG: "All Good Things" did not have the side displays.

It had extruded wall units and horseshoe embellishments that were originally built for some of the alternate bridges in TNG: "Parallels". They did keep the platform beneath the centre chairs for Generations.

Interestingly though we know the future bridge scenes were filmed first for "AGT", presumably due to Denise Crosby's availability. There's a goof where you can see the future door signage with its distinctive full-length vertical stripe on the past bridge. So it can't have been a case of "they couldn't be bothered changing it". Especially as the central raised platform itself was modified with updated colour panelling and lighting.

Totally see it now. Having found a couple websites on reused sets it's amazing how much they've reused (obviously makes sense financially) but interesting some of the "changing one station and leaving the rest the same" instances eg. The transporter rooms etc.

It's easily missable as the set was gutted with only the floor, a few handrail struts, some of the light up wall struts, and the ceiling ring remaining.

In this shot you can kind of make out part of the floor pit area, a couple of handrail struts, and three of the light up wall struts (one behind Riker, one to screen left of Riker, one on the upper right) holding up the ceiling ring.

In this shot you can see the bottom of the ceiling ring still has the trapezoidal and tapered box lighting fixtures...

...the set had in its Enterprise-B setup...

... and its STVI: TUC Enterprise-A setup.

 

[El Maestro]

Totally see it now. Having found a couple websites on reused sets it's amazing how much they've reused (obviously makes sense financially) but interesting some of the "changing one station and leaving the rest the same" instances eg. The transporter rooms etc.

Yes, such production apocrypha are always fascinating!!

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm going to go into a slight tangent now, but still related to what we saw and didn't see in PIC Season 3. Judging by which Enterprises were in the museum, I think it's safe to say the ones that weren't there were destroyed. With the likely exception of the F.

NX-01 Enterprise --> Intact.
Enterprise-Nil --> Destroyed.
Enterprise-A --> Intact.
Enterprise-B --> Destroyed. It's an Excelsior. They would've kept it in service forever if it wasn't.
Enterprise-C --> Lost, presumably Destroyed.
Enterprise-D --> Rebuilt.
Enterprise-E --> "That was not my fault!" I'm going with Destroyed.
Enterprise-F --> Decommissioned. Presumably not destroyed off-screen in the last two episodes (or we would've heard about it), just too new to be in a museum. So probably somewhere else for the time being, as of 2402.

So, the only Enterprises (before the F), that made it are: the one commanded by Archer, the one only commanded by Kirk, and the one only commanded by Picard (on a permanent basis). Kirk had predecessors on the TOS Enterprise and Picard had a successor on the Enterprise-E. Whereas the NX-01, A, and D can be said to be definitively Archer, Kirk, and Picard's ships.

 

[dswynne1]

This video FINALLY explains why the Constitution II Class went out of service. When this guy lays it out, it all makes sense. Basically, Starfleet tried to make 2270s technology fit within a 2240s design, and it ended up with the warp core right behind the torpedo launcher. Making it worse, top half of warp core is positioned right inside the neck. Not a lot of protection from within or without. In the TOS Enterprise, the warp engines were positioned in the back of the ship, nowhere near anything else.

This video goes into a lot more, but what I described above is the #1 thing.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

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So I don't think it mattered how new or old the Enterprise-A was, it was decommissioned because Starfleet deemed the general design to be too impractical overall.

I've always found "fan-canon" to be a bit silly. The Constitution-class wouldn't be replaced because of "design flaws", because ALL Federation have the same basic design. Fact is, the design was already old by the time TWOK happened, and it was time to upgrade the fleet, hence the introduction of the Excelsior-class in TSFS. Simple as that.

 

[Macintosh]

Enterprise-B --> Destroyed. It's an Excelsior. They would've kept it in service forever if it wasn't.

The irony there being that the original USS Excelsior herself is in the Starfleet Museum and clearly wasn't kept in service forever. Behind-the-scenes information from PIC S2 suggests that the Excelsior was retired in 2320 after 35 years of service, though this was possibly a political decision since it coincided with Sulu's own retirement from Starfleet.

It does seem odd that we know so little about the fates of some of the starships Enterprise. I get the argument that "it leaves the possibility open for future stories" – but then the only Enterprise ever properly revisited is the original 1701 in DIS and SNW, and its history is already extremely comprehensive.

 

[Lord Garth]

The irony there being that the original USS Excelsior herself is in the Starfleet Museum and clearly wasn't kept in service forever. Behind-the-scenes information from PIC S2 suggests that the Excelsior was retired in 2320 after 35 years of service, though this was possibly a political decision since it coincided with Sulu's own retirement from Starfleet.

It does seem odd that we know so little about the fates of some of the starships Enterprise. I get the argument that "it leaves the possibility open for future stories" – but then the only Enterprise ever properly revisited is the original 1701 in DIS and SNW, and its history is already extremely comprehensive.

I personally think the only way we'll ever get to see the Post-TUC/Pre-TNG setting for a series is if they do a prequel about Picard. I'm basing this off of the idea that Paramount will want to continue the character even after Patrick Stewart is longer able to play him.

If -- if -- this happens, I think it would probably be at least "Phase 3" of 3rd Generation Trek. So probably not for a while. If it actually does.