The Enemy Within

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Trekfan12, Jul 30, 2016.

  1. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    There's no such line in that episode (though Spock does refer to his ancestors of 5000 years ago as "warlike barbarians"). Maybe you're thinking of Spock's line in "Balance of Terror":

    "Vulcan, like Earth, had its aggressive, colonizing period, savage even by Earth standards. And if Romulans retain this martial philosophy, then weakness is something we dare not show."
     
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  2. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always imagined Vulcan women welcoming their husbands home from work by asking if they had a good day at the temple today and the husband answering with a, ''It was acceptable she who is my wife!'' Then I guess she spends the rest of the day in meditation and he plays the lute before they go to sleep for two hours and get ready for the next day! :vulcan:
    JB
     
  3. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always imagined that Vulcan wives walk behind their husbands because it is logical. The men are stronger and more likely to survive a wild sehlat attack or at least to weaken the beast for the wife to finish off. She can always find herself another husband. While he remains alert, warning her to avoid stepping in dung, her mind is free to examine advance mathematics, a cure to the virus on Veridian VI, and that new plomek soup recipe.
     
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  4. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But didn't the sehlat attack from behind in "Yesteryear"? :vulcan:

    (The le-matya later attacked from an unknown direction, and we joined the action once it had little Spock cornered...)

    In any case, "the wife always walks behind" may be shit made up by Sarek the perv, only applying to the alien animal concubines he prefers, and Sarek simply passed on the proud tradition to his son who slightly misunderstood it.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is one of those instances when the societal norms were challenged and changed, because they were wrong. As an example, date rape -- something that was once not even thought of as rape -- is now recognized for what it is: rape. Same behavior, different norms, but always wrong, even when it wasn't recognized as wrong. The norms changed for a reason.
     
  6. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...By the same token, they may change once again, and for example slavery be declared "always right, despite the moral decrepitude of our 21st century forefathers". All it takes is a reason.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  7. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, but in the absence of reason, it often requires a rationalization.
     
  8. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Huh? Winners write history, and they don't need to rationalize when they can declare. Losers can't even whine from beyond the grave.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  9. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rationalize:

     
  10. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...There being no need to do that when one is in a position to define right and wrong at the fundamental level (i.e. living later than the other guy).

    You seem to be thinking that morality evolves in the sense of getting better. It doesn't. It evolves in the sense of better bending to the circumstances. Because, you know, morality is all about rationalizing, of formalizing the type of behavior that benefits the society and then slapping the meaningless "this is right" label on it.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What the fuck ever, dude.
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Happy to open your eyes, friend.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  13. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Damn, I guess Vulcan males really don't like plomek soup?
     
  14. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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  15. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    Are you sure about Roddenberry adding the dark side/light side angle?

     
  16. UnknownSample

    UnknownSample Commodore Commodore

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    That did seem like more of a R Matheson idea, than a Roddenberry type idea. RM, great ideas with depth to them... in science fiction terms he doesn't color within the lines though... his ideas generally cross over a boundary from SF to magic/fantasy, even if just a little bit.
     
  17. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Also, given the wind, there may have been some concern the ore would interfere with shuttle engines. It is magnetic, after all.
     
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  18. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think it was an open ended command, but more of a sentimental gesture. "if this doesn't work...goodbye and thank you for everything."
     
  19. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I guess Spock can interpret it however he likes. I agree that it seems kind of a true-to-form parting shot from weak-willed Kirk for him to be at a loss for words, but sometimes there really are no words.

    Rather than being good and evil (as weak and strong people are both capable of both types of actions), I think it's more Kirk's unchecked impulses vs his ability to feign from acting that were split into two. It's sort of like, unleashed, Act Now Kirk trends towards all the things he's wanted to do but has stopped himself from doing, often doing it with no concern for others' feelings or well-being. What If Kirk, on the other hand, wants to do the right thing, but can't muster any force behind his desires.

    Without impulsiveness, you can't defy others to do what is right but against the rules/considered wrong or impossible. Without self-control and command of the situation, you have all these good intentions, but can't act on them, always afraid of what the unintentional outcome could be. Act Now Kirk, normally restrained by What if Kirk, would tell Rand about his feelings, afraid to be vulnerable but daring to see if she feels the same. What If Kirk, normally moved by Act Now Kirk, ultimately makes decisions, that, while never easy, save lives and work for the best possible outcome.
     
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  20. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It would have been funny if it had been Spock instead - to see a wholly Human Spock with a wicked sense of humor, maybe one who tells jokes and plays pranks, and a wholly Vulcan one who's rigid as a board.