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The DTI's Stance on the MU

Although I could raise the same question about Phlox's IAMD observation that I've always had about Dark Mirror's similar survey of the Mirror Universe's more twisted and malevolent literature (although her Mirror Shakespeare was much crueller than Shakespeare Prime): namely, was classic literature really that vile throughout history, or did the Terran Empire rewrite its classics to be nastier as part of its propaganda? When it comes to a tyrranical state like the Empire, I don't expect its historical sources to be accurate.
 
^I've wondered about that, too. I've seen several fan-made timelines of the MU dating back to George Washington's time, and the information they contain just doesn't seem that realistic.

For example, one of the timelines stated that John F. Kennedy was assassinated by operatives hired by Martin Luther King. Now, putting aside the numerous conspiracy theories pertaining to Kennedy's death, it just doesn't seem plausible that something like this would've happened--in any universe. Why would a man like Dr. King--who spent his entire life trying to bring people together--be responsible for something that could've torn the United States apart?

It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the leaders of the Terran Empire altered historical records to make Earth and its allies appear more threatening to outsiders (Klingons and Romulans), which raises the question of whether Zefram Cochrane really shot his Vulcan visitors, if that was part of the Empire's propaganda.

--Sran
 
For example, one of the timelines stated that John F. Kennedy was assassinated by operatives hired by Martin Luther King. Now, putting aside the numerous conspiracy theories pertaining to Kennedy's death, it just doesn't seem plausible that something like this would've happened--in any universe. Why would a man like Dr. King--who spent his entire life trying to bring people together--be responsible for something that could've torn the United States apart?

Who's to say what MLK was like in that universe? There's no reason to think he's anything like the real one.

which raises the question of whether Zefram Cochrane really shot his Vulcan visitors, if that was part of the Empire's propaganda.

We can be sure that happened, because we SAW it happen.
 
You guys made me quite curious. Memory Beta doesn´t anwer my question as to since when the MU exists. I´m not privy to the MU ENT episodes. I wonder how MU 16th century England was, as it was Shakespeare´s time. Absolutism was barbaric at times. How much more barbaric was it in the MU? Did MU Henry the VIII kill more than two of his wives? What were MU Machiavelli´s opinions concerning politics? Did he publish "The Prince"?
Next time someone crosses over to the MU, he/she could ask Smiley O´Brien for a history lession. I would be interested.
 
^But as I said, we have no way of knowing if the history they get taught in the MU is accurate. The Alliance probably paints an untruthfully negative view of human history, while the Empire probably painted an untruthfully self-aggrandizing version.


Looking at the IaMD title sequence, the first image that we can definitively say is divergent from our history is the shot of an astronaut planting the Terran Empire flag on the Moon. That's a bit hard to pin down the date for, though; the implication is that it's the MU version of the 1969 Moon landing, but the astronaut is wearing a 22nd-century Starfleet EVA suit. It's also a pretty obvious fake, so maybe it represents latter-day Terran Empire propaganda rewriting history.
 
^I've wondered about that, too. I've seen several fan-made timelines of the MU dating back to George Washington's time, and the information they contain just doesn't seem that realistic.

For example, one of the timelines stated that John F. Kennedy was assassinated by operatives hired by Martin Luther King. Now, putting aside the numerous conspiracy theories pertaining to Kennedy's death, it just doesn't seem plausible that something like this would've happened--in any universe. Why would a man like Dr. King--who spent his entire life trying to bring people together--be responsible for something that could've torn the United States apart?

Edited paragraph: Without having read that fic, I would presume that the author's intention was to go with the "good people are bad in the Mirror Universe" conceit. In which case, presumably in that version, Dr. King wouldn't have been an activist for equality and civil rights, but would instead have been a partisan fighting for black supremacy rather than white supremacy. An alternate possibility, of course, might be that Dr. King was a genuine freedom fighter who didn't believe in nonviolence in that fic, a la Nelson Mandela.

If we go with the "good people are bad in the Mirror Universe" conceit, though, this does directly contradict Chapter 17 ("A Secret Called Freedom") of The Sorrows of Empire, wherein Dr. King is established to have been among anti-authoritarian, individualist, and/or revolutionary authors, activists, and leaders whose works were still censored by the Terran Empire in the 23rd Century. End edit.

(Other such authors and activists included Immanuel Kant, John Stuart Mill, Thomas Paine, Ayn Rand, George Orwell, N.E. Peart, Zacarías Manuel de la Rocha, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and Mahatma Gandhi.)

(Side-note: I never realized until just now, looking it up, that the references to Peart and de la Rocha were references to the bands Rush and Rage Against the Machine!)

So I think one of the creative conceits behind the Mirror Universe, at least as it is currently interpreted in Trek Lit, is that real history's famous activists for human liberty remained such in the M.U.

For what it's worth, the preceding story in Glass Empires, Age of the Empress, contains a reference to palaces being built in North America in the early 21st Century by Emperor George II. I take this to be the Mirror Universe counterpart to former U.S. President George W. Bush -- and I find myself wondering about the history that lead to the creation of the Terran Empire, in particular U.S. history.

Did the United States ever exist in the Mirror Universe, or did some other polity form out of the European settler cultures that evolved in North America? Perhaps the Terran Empire's ancestral state was the counterpart to the U.S. -- apparently some sort of de jure American Empire? The reference to Dr. King suggests that the M.U. counterpart to the U.S., whatever it may have been called, still at some point in its history organized its society around white supremacy and race-based caste slavery. By the 2150s, the Empire still practices slavery, but it appears to have reserved that status for non-Humans; I find myself wondering what kinds of movements would have evolved to fight the race-based American slave system without actually ending slavery itself as a de jure legal institution.

One scenario suggests itself: Age of the Empress is essentially the story of how the Empire, faced with a rebellion by its conquered peoples, chose to placate the elites of the conquered peoples by making them full partners in the Empire, thereby transforming the Empire's repression from one focused outwards ("Humans enslaving aliens") to one more inwards ("Humans dominate with aliens as junior partners, and all combine their resources to repress their domestic populations"). Perhaps something similar happened to the Mirror America -- a slave rebellion eventually led to blacks being integrated into white society, black elites becoming junior partners in the imperial regime, but with the resources of both being rededicated to repression against domestic society, and/or to the repression of foreign peoples overseas.

That does raise the question of what FDR's role in M.U. American history would have been. Presuming he kept his general role as someone who worked for human liberty (hence his speeches being censored in the 23rd Century), one wonders if it is plausible to imagine he would have been a head of state like his real-life counterpart. Maybe the Mirror FDR was someone who inherited the American throne and tried to initiate democratic reform, but was thwarted by the Mirror Universe equivalent to the Business Plot? That would nicely preserve the general Mirror Universe conceit of "everyone has roughly the same job until the fall of the Empire" while explaining why he'd be an un-person in the 2270s.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the leaders of the Terran Empire altered historical records to make Earth and its allies appear more threatening to outsiders (Klingons and Romulans), which raises the question of whether Zefram Cochrane really shot his Vulcan visitors, if that was part of the Empire's propaganda.

Well, we the audience actually saw that happen from the same omniscient third person point of view from which we always see events. So I think it's highly likely that Mirror Universe Zefram Cochrane did indeed shoot Captain Solkar.

ETA:

Looking at the IaMD title sequence, the first image that we can definitively say is divergent from our history is the shot of an astronaut planting the Terran Empire flag on the Moon. That's a bit hard to pin down the date for, though; the implication is that it's the MU version of the 1969 Moon landing, but the astronaut is wearing a 22nd-century Starfleet EVA suit. It's also a pretty obvious fake, so maybe it represents latter-day Terran Empire propaganda rewriting history.

That also depends on how you interpret the graphic overlays. There is footage from what appears to be World War I, with the image of an army marching as the emblem of the Terran Empire appears over them. That could be interpreted as implying that the Terran Empire, or an ancestral state, existed as early as 1913.

I suppose the question is -- do these images represent an objective, omniscient third-person overview of M.U. Earth history, or do they represent a propagandistic view of history as encouraged by Imperial authorities?

(Which, of course, raises the question -- do the normal intro images in ENT's opening titles represent an objective, omniscient third-person overview of Earth history, or do they represent a propagandistic view of history as encouraged by United Earth authorities?)
 
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In the IaMD titles' case, I lean toward calling it Terran Imperial propaganda.

As for the regular titles...North American-centric to be sure.
 
I suppose the question is -- do these images represent an objective, omniscient third-person overview of M.U. Earth history, or do they represent a propagandistic view of history as encouraged by Imperial authorities?

I lean toward the latter, since I think the idea of in-universe propaganda contributes to the effectiveness of the conceit, of an entire episode based in the Mirror Universe as viewed entirely from the MU characters' POV. The propaganda option fits well with the intended purpose of the altered credits - that this is sensationalist, crowd-pleasing and deliberately over-the-top to the extent that it simply can't be resisted. It's so grandiose and questionable in its logic - like the afore-mentioned blending of 20th Century events and 22nd Century imagery - that it captures the intensity and desperate madness of the Terran Empire perfectly. Basically, I like to think we're not only intended to be situated physically within the mirror universe for these episodes, but philosophically; that for these episodes, this is our Archer and we see as he does, that we're on board with this madness. It's truly all on the other side of the mirror, from the bottom up. It's different and we're different, because this time we're here to see the Terran Empire be deliciously brutal and backstabbing. We're not inhabitants of our Earth imagining a future space mission, we're viewers of the mirror Earth.

(And indeed, once we see those credits we are on board, because damn logic, this is great. :lol:)

The Terran Empire is a nation which is unviable, where the system is self-defeating but cannot accept change, where brutality and inflexibility are essential assets, because if they go soft - they know - they'll collapse into the nightmare they've stoked for too long.

(Like one who on a lonesome road
Doth walk in fear and dread,
And having once turned round walks on,
And turns no more his head;
Because he knows, a frightful fiend
Doth close behind him tread).

It's a world where the cracks and the unstable foundations are loudly denied, where if they just expand a bit further and come down a bit harder they can stave off the end. They're like the Dark Eldar in Warhammer 40K, unable to accept the fate they've become trapped by and sacrificing others in order to stave it off.

Having us assume the role of Mirror denizens works with the progression of the story across the two episodes; after the first establishes the setting and the idea that rebellions are eating away at the empire - and the latest attempt to patch the system is introduced, namely, cheating - the second is about the insidious lure of alternate ideas and possibilities that start subverting the characters. They acquired alternate/future technology and carried in with it were alternate/future ideas. And so it all starts falling apart; well, that is, it was falling apart already, but the characters had a shell in place that let them deny it, and now that's falling apart. In terms of the characters and in terms of the story being told, it starts defined entirely in the mirror universe/Terran Empire only to then have cracks open from elsewhere and insidiously shine in some light. I think we should go along with this intent, and so I prefer opening credits interpreted as themselves entirely Mirror, with no possibility of objectivity. ;) Let the MU be closed to omniscient analysis, let it be self-contained until the Defiant appears...
 
I'm not entirely sure how serious you are with that theory, HB :p

Actually, the gist of my fanfic premise can be found, mostly intact, on Uncyclopedia. I think I copped the "Wal-Mart on Mars" picture from another article, but I'm not so sure I didn't GIMP the shot with Marvin the Martian (labeled as Richard Kiley in heavy makeup) myself.

And it all grew out of a complete and utter loathing of the hoax (and a strong feeling that, at least when it was at its peak, the more gullible -- or merely naive -- fans were falling for it). (At least the hoaxes of a 19th century "Star Trek" dime novel series, and the ones about a 1930s theatrical serial, were amusing, as well as being absurd enough that anybody who fell for them probably shouldn't be allowed to roam the streets without a keeper.)

Then again, I'm sure I'm betraying no secret when I say that I've had a few wet-dreams about time-cops arranging for the Abramsverse to implode.
 
I have to admit, I've honestly never heard of any of these hoaxes. Are these an old-school fandom thing, or a more recent thing?
 
Didn't one of the Shatnerverse novels imply or speculate that the difference between the MU and Prime is that the MU didn't have the Preservers manipulating events throughout history?
 
^Well, I've never cared for the tendency to elevate the Preservers into some mighty, all-powerful ancient race. All we canonically know about them is that they transplanted a bunch of Native Americans sometime in the late 17th or early 18th century (since the Native Americans weren't an endangered population before then), that they had tractor-beam and memory-wiping technology, and that they were too incompetent to find a nature-preserve planet that wasn't in the middle of a deadly asteroid field. But since there's a near-total dearth of factual information about them, people tend to fill the gap with all sorts of assumptions about them being incredibly ancient and all-powerful and all the usual super-race stuff.

Although I guess that in the wake of Seekers, I have to accept that the Preservers are at least as old as the Shedai. Or maybe there were two different Preserver civilizations, one of which inherited the technology of its forebear. Honestly, the very idea of the Preservers as an entire civilization or species is problematical; no whole species would be dedicated entirely to a single activity. It seems to me that the Preservers should be more of an organization, like the World Wildlife Fund or Greenpeace. It could have members from multiple species. Maybe it's a tradition handed down through the ages.
 
Didn't one of the Shatnerverse novels imply or speculate that the difference between the MU and Prime is that the MU didn't have the Preservers manipulating events throughout history?

Shat suggested that the divergence is due to ST:FC. In the MU, Cochrane warned everyone of the Borg and thus inspired Earth to create the militarized Terran Empire to defend against it. In the RU, he kept his mouth shut. (That's why, in the MU, there's a body of water on the Moon that is called Lake Riker, whereas in the RU it's Lake Armstrong.)
 
^Well, I've never cared for the tendency to elevate the Preservers into some mighty, all-powerful ancient race. All we canonically know about them is that they transplanted a bunch of Native Americans sometime in the late 17th or early 18th century (since the Native Americans weren't an endangered population before then), that they had tractor-beam and memory-wiping technology, and that they were too incompetent to find a nature-preserve planet that wasn't in the middle of a deadly asteroid field. But since there's a near-total dearth of factual information about them, people tend to fill the gap with all sorts of assumptions about them being incredibly ancient and all-powerful and all the usual super-race stuff.

Although I guess that in the wake of Seekers, I have to accept that the Preservers are at least as old as the Shedai. Or maybe there were two different Preserver civilizations, one of which inherited the technology of its forebear. Honestly, the very idea of the Preservers as an entire civilization or species is problematical; no whole species would be dedicated entirely to a single activity. It seems to me that the Preservers should be more of an organization, like the World Wildlife Fund or Greenpeace. It could have members from multiple species. Maybe it's a tradition handed down through the ages.

I assume that "Preserver" is akin to Megalosaurus and other "wastebin" genera; that a whole host of probably unrelated civilizations who were invested or otherwise involved in aiding or monitoring pre-warp species are enthusiastically categorized under that label. It certainly helps keep the often contradictory portrayals resting comfortably within the same continuity - "Preservers" refers to any one of a number of meddling elder races, a number of which probably weren't actually very committed to the "core" Preserver trait of sheltering/transplanting endangered populations at all, but whose occasional actions in some areas cause modern observers to make a link. Presumably because the idea of some powerful, sprawling "guardian/meddler" power has an appeal to them.
 
^That's pretty much what I asserted in The Collectors -- though at the time, I had no idea what Dave, Dayton, and Kevin were planning to do over in Seekers. Thanks to them, we now know that at least the same technology was being used in instances hundreds of thousands of years apart -- although it's hard to believe the technology could go unchanged over such a span of time. Maybe the tech used by the "Paradise Syndrome" Preservers was a less powerful knockoff of the original. The obelisk there was certainly smaller.
 
^That's pretty much what I asserted in The Collectors -- though at the time, I had no idea what Dave, Dayton, and Kevin were planning to do over in Seekers. Thanks to them, we now know that at least the same technology was being used in instances hundreds of thousands of years apart -- although it's hard to believe the technology could go unchanged over such a span of time. Maybe the tech used by the "Paradise Syndrome" Preservers was a less powerful knockoff of the original. The obelisk there was certainly smaller.

You've just given me the amusing image of some well-meaning but not too sophisticated race being inspired to good deeds by the example of others, and attempting to pull off something similar with a "home-made" version. Like children committing themselves to a project in imitation of their heroes. :)

The native Americans were transplanted by amateurs who felt good about their contribution. Whether they received, or hoped to receive, the equivalent of a Good Galactic Stewardship badge is perhaps the next question. ;)
 
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