The "delta" symbol... Enterprise only, or general use?

[gastrof]

This question has come to me before, and now the new movie brings it to mind once again.

There's some discussion on whether the new movie takes place in an altered version of the traditional Trek universe, or maybe is an alternate reality from the start, even before the "temporal incursion".

One of the reasons for this is the fact the delta is seen on the uniforms of the crew on the starship Kelvin.

The Enterprise wasn't even BUILT yet, even in the traditional timeline.

Also, in THE CAGE, we see someone in a Starfleet uniform that looks somewhat different from that of Pike's crew on the Enterprise (during the illusion of Veena as an Orion girl), but the guy's "badge" is the command delta.

I believe we also saw people with delta shaped badges from other ships in at least the episode "Court Martial". Am I right in that?

Yet there's that pesky little problem of two or three other starship crews having been shown with their own badges, unique to their ship (tho' the command star and science circle and ops squiggly were used...within the differently shaped badge).

What's the general consensus about the badges?

Is it possible the delta was actually the norm, and those other ships for some reason were given badges of different shapes, only to have Starfleet later go back to using ONLY the delta again (by the era of the Kirk movies)?

How is it generally understood?

 

[Kirk1980]

As far as I know, the Enterprise emblem was ONLY intended for use on Enterprise.

 

[gastrof]

As far as I know, the Enterprise emblem was ONLY intended for use on Enterprise.

So what was the explanation on its being seen on the uniforms of other ships' crews?

 

[Botany Bay]

I believe we also saw people with delta shaped badges from other ships in at least the episode "Court Martial". Am I right in that?

Spot on.

Yet there's that pesky little problem of two or three other starship crews having been shown with their own badges, unique to their ship (tho' the command star and science circle and ops squiggly were used...within the differently shaped badge).

What's the general consensus about the badges?

Each ship/station has its own symbol in TOS.

How is it generally understood?

I think the (unofficial) explanation was/is that Starfleet was so impressed with Kirk bringing the Enterprise back intact, that the Enterprise symbol was adopted fleet-wide.

 

[SonicRanger]

I think the only way to rationalize that (1) we saw different insignias on different ships but (2) non-Enterprise crew wore the "Enterprise" delta is that those different insignias corresponded to different "fleets" within Starfleet (e.g., the 2nd Fleet) rather than individual starships. Therefore, the delta could have been worn by Enterprise crew, the Defiant crew, the "Court Martial" people, and that guy in "The Cage" -- they were all part of, say, the 1st Fleet.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

We can also just accept that TOS did things inconsistently, like the name of the organization that the Enterprise belonged to, etc.

 

[urbandk]

We can also just accept that TOS did things inconsistently, like the name of the organization that the Enterprise belonged to, etc.

But doesn't that defeat the point of these protracted disquisitions on costume design?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

We can also just accept that TOS did things inconsistently, like the name of the organization that the Enterprise belonged to, etc.

But doesn't that defeat the point of these protracted disquisitions on costume design?

Wait, you're saying there's a point?

 

[Christopher]

Voyager's "Friendship One" depicted the "delta" symbol (which I prefer to call an arrowhead) on the side of the Friendship 1 space probe launched by UESPA in 2067:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Friendship_One_logo.jpg

So canonically, the arrowhead predates the Enterprise by nearly two centuries. It must be a UESPA emblem that Starfleet chose to pay homage to later on.

Personally, I've never liked the fan notion that the emblem was just the Enterprise's (even aside from the fact that "Court-martial" blatantly disproves that) and was adopted by all of Starfleet to "honor" the Enterprise for its brilliant accomplishments. That's just silly. It's imposing our perceptions as viewers on the universe as a whole. Just because we watched a television show that focused on this one starship, that doesn't mean it's the only starship and crew in all of Starfleet that ever accomplished anything. Sure, Kirk saved whole worlds, but I'm sure other captains were saving other worlds elsewhere.

I agree with SonicRanger's idea that the variant insignias we saw were for different "fleets" or divisions within the overall Starfleet rather than for individual ships. And I have no trouble with the idea that this was a short-lived practice only adopted in the 2250s or '60s, and that the UESPA arrowhead was a Starfleet-wide symbol in the 2230s and after.

Really, it's silly to assume the movie was already in an alternate reality based on a detail as trivial as a uniform insignia. It's simpler just to conclude that our past assumptions about insignia usage were wrong. After all, we've never before seen a Starfleet vessel or uniform from the Prime timeline's 2230s, so who are we to say that they didn't look like what we see in the movie? Especially since "Friendship One" and "Court-martial" both completely destroy the notion that the arrowhead originated as the unique insignia of the Enterprise.

 

[Neopeius]

I think whenever we see the arrowhead, we can just sort of squint our eyes and assume they meant to sub something else. Sort of like how in the 60s, you often had the same actor play numerous roles on the same show, sometimes in back to back episodes, but it doesn't mean they're the same person.

Admiral Wesley is not Lt. Commander Giotto. Miranda Jones is not Anne Mulhall.

But Angela is Angela is Lisa.

 

[gastrof]

I believe we also saw people with delta shaped badges from other ships in at least the episode "Court Martial". Am I right in that?

Spot on.

Yet there's that pesky little problem of two or three other starship crews having been shown with their own badges, unique to their ship (tho' the command star and science circle and ops squiggly were used...within the differently shaped badge).

What's the general consensus about the badges?

Each ship/station has its own symbol in TOS...

But you just admitted crewmembers of other ships also wore the delta.

 

[gastrof]

We can also just accept that TOS did things inconsistently, like the name of the organization that the Enterprise belonged to, etc.

I wish you reality hounds would stop messing with us when we're discussing IN SHOW explanations.

I think whenever we see the arrowhead, we can just sort of squint our eyes and assume they meant to sub something else...

CANON VIOLATION!!!







Here's an idea.

Maybe the ships that had the different badges....maybe THEY were the ones being honored for some heroic feat, and THEY were given badges that stood out as different from the rest of Starfleet.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

 

[Noname Given]

As far as I know, the Enterprise emblem was ONLY intended for use on Enterprise.

So what was the explanation on its being seen on the uniforms of other ships' crews?

Real world TV budget and time constraints.

 

[Praetor]

We can also just accept that TOS did things inconsistently, like the name of the organization that the Enterprise belonged to, etc.

But doesn't that defeat the point of these protracted disquisitions on costume design?

"Disquisitions." +1

I like the "separate fleets" retcon.

 

[pookha]

they didnt think of assinging the other ship crews different emblems it looks until the second season.

 

[Praetor]

The Antares. Season one.

 

[Gotham Central]

The Antares. Season one.

I was under the impression that the Antares was not in Starfleet. Wasn't designated SS Anatares? Plus the logo lacked the various department symbols.

 

[Praetor]

The Antares. Season one.

I was under the impression that the Antares was not in Starfleet. Wasn't designated SS Anatares? Plus the logo lacked the various department symbols.

Eh, it's iffy I'd say. It could really go either way. The crew wore the WNMHGB uniforms and rank insignia, which were presumably Starfleet, even if the badges didn't have the department symbols. Kirk called it "science probe vessel Antares" I believe. But that could mean it was just a Grissom-level ship, and the Grissom was still a U.S.S. with an NCC.

(In TOS-R they left off a prefix to leave the Antares ambiguous, using the shuttle-style red lettering, and gave it registry NCC-501. So no real help there, either.)

 

[Basil]

Makes sense that insignia could correspond to different "fleets" or mission specific divisions, which might even help settle the whole UESPA issue, since this could be a division of Starfleet to which the Enterprise is assigned. The Antares could be assigned to the same division as the Enterprise, as would ships represented with the delta emblem.