The Delta Flyers now covering DS9

[Crewman6]

Wow brief this week and they didn't have much positive to say about Sons and Daughters but fair enough really!

Sons and Daughters sucks and is sadly the weak link in the six-episode arc.

It's extremely shitty how the writers just decided to up and ignore Alexander when Worf joined the DS9 crew and then a couple years later were like, "oh, right, Alexander. I guess we should acknowledge him somehow." And the only way they could do it was to make the show's ignoring Alexander a plot point thus turning Worf into a huge gigantic a-hole.

When Alexander says, "You abandoned me," Worfs rejoinder should have been, "Well, that was really just the writers."

 

[MakeshiftPython]

They made an episode titled "Sons and Daughters", with Alexander and Ziyal serving as the alluded characters in the title. Naturally, the title being what it is, means it's as much about the fathers (sorry, dead mothers). That the chosen characters being Alexander and Ziyal means of course the fathers are Worf and Dukat...

So, I guess that means the episode is asking for us to compare and contrast the relationship between the fathers and children... in which case... what were they thinking when they depicted Worf as being an objectively worse father than Dukat? What were they trying to say here? Dukat is a deluded dictator, but he's a loving father? Worf is an honorable man, but he's an emotionally abusive father? WHYYYY???

Also, that ending with Worf embracing Alexander is just confusing as hell. At first I thought they were trying to imply that Alexander intentionally locked himself in the room to sacrifice himself if things got sour when fixing the plasma whatever (shades of Spock). He managed to fix it and survive. That's why he's smiling, because he was not only prepared to die but he managed to fix the ship and save everyone. Worf found his actions to be worthy of a warrior and it made him respect his son more. But, it could also be read that Alexander accidentally locked himself in the room as the writers decided he's a klutz, and it can play that way... if that's actually the case, why does that make Worf proud of him?

Easily the weakest of the seven-episode arc. I think Worf is generally a better written character on DS9 than he was on TNG, so that makes episodes like this and "Let He Who Is Without Sin..." really baffling. Behr has always expressed pride in the fact that the DS9 characters are not perfect, are capable of making more mistakes than the TNG crew and can have character flaws. I think they try that with Worf in those instances but instead of making him a likable but complicated character they miss the mark and just make him look like an asshole in those instances.

 

[kkt]

Voyager couldn't have recurring characters dropping into the ship very often. And when they did have some recurring villains (like the Kazon/Seska) characters in season one, it underscored the fact that Voyager's progress getting home was extremely slow.

That said, because the ship was insular, that provided a wealth of opportunity to have recurring characters among the crew. They could have dipped into a deep well of other Voyager crew members again and again.

Sure, they'd all necessarily have to be Starfleet officers, thus you wouldn't get the wide range of characters DS9 had. But they certainly could have tried. They just really didn't bother, with a few very brief exceptions. The show was just utterly devoid of ambition and vision.

They didn't all HAVE to be Starfleet officers. They could have been Maquis drawn from any number of possible backgrounds. They just, as you say, didn't bother.

 

[kkt]

Sons and Daughters sucks and is sadly the weak link in the six-episode arc.

It's extremely shitty how the writers just decided to up and ignore Alexander when Worf joined the DS9 crew and then a couple years later were like, "oh, right, Alexander. I guess we should acknowledge him somehow." And the only way they could do it was to make the show's ignoring Alexander a plot point thus turning Worf into a huge gigantic a-hole.

When Alexander says, "You abandoned me," Worfs rejoinder should have been, "Well, that was really just the writers."

Ha! "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way!" - Jessica Rabbit

 

[Crewman6]

They didn't all HAVE to be Starfleet officers. They could have been Maquis drawn from any number of possible backgrounds. They just, as you say, didn't bother.

But it raises the question of just how many Maquis crew members really were on Chakotay's tiny ship. We have Tuvok, B'Elanna and Chakotay, then the lower deckers from "Learning Curve" and maybe a few other random extras here and there. And Suder?

But, yeah, they could have turned those Learning Curve characters into interesting recurring characters, but they didn't. (not that they were interesting in that episode, but the idea is sound.)

Voyager was a show all about blown opportunities and this is definitely a biggie.

 

[Tosk]

But it raises the question of just how many Maquis crew members really were on Chakotay's tiny ship.

Stadi in Caretaker: "Crew complement of one hundred and forty one."
Chell in Repression: "Ever since Voyager began sending datastreams back home, Starfleet has known that almost a quarter of the crew is Maquis."

 

[VDCNI]

After a good run they all managed to be quite annoying this week, Behind The Lines.

Robbie kept to his, everything has to be underlined in dialogue attitude. Not trusting the audience to understand anything.

Garrett added to his long list of terrible jokes with Worry Worf.

Armin complained about then forcing Nog to serve drinks because he was a Ferengi and ignoring that it was because he was a Cadet. Then he invented a scene from a prior episode of Kira having Cardassian guards who escorted her to Ops and the three of them then congratulated each other on their ideas of how to 'fix' the scene.

 

[Crewman6]

After a good run they all managed to be quite annoying this week, Behind The Lines.

Robbie kept to his, everything has to be underlined in dialogue attitude. Not trusting the audience to understand anything.

Garrett added to his long list of terrible jokes with Worry Worf.

Armin complained about then forcing Nog to serve drinks because he was a Ferengi and ignoring that it was because he was a Cadet. Then he invented a scene from a prior episode of Kira having Cardassian guards who escorted her to Ops and the three of them then congratulated each other on their ideas of how to 'fix' the scene.

Lot of dumb comments this week, but I still haven't finished it yet.

They assumed that the scene of Kira and Rom watching their sabotage plan unfold in real time was due to the episode running long. They hate it whenever the show dares do something interesting in its presentation (the talking to camera bit in Rules of Engagement broke their collective brains.) Personally, I thought it was a great bit. Economical, certainly, but there's no way that was the justification for it.

Garrett idiotically said, "Life During Wartime" would have been a terrible title. Actually, it would have been a far better title.

And they all wonder why the Female Changeling showed up on the station without telling Weyoun or Dukat about her travel plans, completely misunderstanding the changeling arrogance and disinterest in solids which was baked into them from almost the moment we met them. No, the Female Changeling wouldn't tell anyone about her movements since she doesn't give a shit about solids and wouldn't consider it any of their damn business.

There were other stupid moments, but I forget what they were and, as I said, I still haven't finished the episode.

 

[Crewman6]

Stadi in Caretaker: "Crew complement of one hundred and forty one."
Chell in Repression: "Ever since Voyager began sending datastreams back home, Starfleet has known that almost a quarter of the crew is Maquis."

The only way that makes sense is if Voyager lost 50% of its crew when the Caretaker whisked it to the Delta Quadrant.

35 Maquis aboard their tiny fighter? Utterly preposterous.

 

[VDCNI]

Oh yeah the Fenale Changling thing, I thought the same. She absolutely would be travelling around and doing what she wanted without informing anyone.

 

[Tosk]

35 Maquis aboard their tiny fighter? Utterly preposterous.

I dunno, I don't think it's too crazy. There's four or five alone in just that little white dot at the front.



(The Val Jean has a redesigned cockpit exterior as it's a bigger ship than the other Maquis fighter we had seen in TNG.)

 

[StewMc]

Armin complained about then forcing Nog to serve drinks because he was a Ferengi and ignoring that it was because he was a Cadet. Then he invented a scene from a prior episode of Kira having Cardassian guards who escorted her to Ops and the three of them then congratulated each other on their ideas of how to 'fix' the scene.

The invention of that scene and the followup criticism because the writers didn't remember said non existent scene when writing this episode was spectacular. Presumably he's misremembering the scene(s) in Rocks and Shoals when Kira gets ready for her shift and is in the turbolift with the soldiers etc.

And completely agree with Crewman6 that the scene with Kira and Rom watching the chaos from above in Quark's was great. Why can't something just be creative for the sake of being creative?

Re the Maquis though, I always assumed there were about 30-40 crew on Chakotay's ship.

 

[VDCNI]

The invention of that scene and the followup criticism because the writers didn't remember said non existent scene when writing this episode was spectacular. Presumably he's misremembering the scene(s) in Rocks and Shoals when Kira gets ready for her shift and is in the turbolift with the soldiers etc.

And completely agree with Crewman6 that the scene with Kira and Rom watching the chaos from above in Quark's was great. Why can't something just be creative for the sake of being creative?

Re the Maquis though, I always assumed there were about 30-40 crew on Chakotay's ship.

Either that or the Cardassian giving Kira her morning coffee but yes it was painful listening to them.

Yes I also like the Quark sequence, given they are actors who'd you'd expect to appreciate creativity it's amazing how often they don't like anything out of the ordinary.

 

[Crewman6]

I'm actually going to give Armin a soupcon of credit, as near the end of the episode, he actually made a good point. One of the listener questions asked about whether Odo's actions in linking with the Female Changeling and blowing off his responsibilties to Rom and the Resistance was justified and Armin came to the character's defense, pointing out that Odo has always been obsessed with "his people" and that linking gave him something he had always craved.

It was bordering on...insightful. It was accurate and on-point, which for these jokers, especially Armin, is all too rare. So I was surprised and pleased to see him make a good point, even if it's one that the rest of us would take as a given.

 

[Crewman6]

Well, I only listened to the first half of "Favor the Bold", but it contains one of the most hilarious host gaffes to date. An indignant Garrett Wang is annoyed and perplexed that Nog went "directly" from cadet to ensign while skipping an imaginary interim step.

Uh, there is nothing between cadet and ensign, you goon. Garrett said he skipped, "crewman." Which is an enlisted rank. Not something cadets transition into on the way to ensign-hood.

Oy vey....

 

[VDCNI]

Armin is also confused about how Klingon's have cloaking devices. Now fair enough actors aren't Star Trek experts but it's not like it's the first one we've ever seen in the show.

 

[Tosk]

Armin is also confused about how Klingon's have cloaking devices. Now fair enough actors aren't Star Trek experts but it's not like it's the first one we've ever seen in the show.

Armin can be very Quark-centric, stuff that didn't involve Quark can easily pass him by.

...So I guess he forgot that he did an episode where he and Max had to pretend to carry a Klingon cloaking device.

 

[Crewman6]

Armin can be very Quark-centric, stuff that didn't involve Quark can easily pass him by.

...So I guess he forgot that he did an episode where he and Max had to pretend to carry a Klingon cloaking device.

Just like how the writers forgot the Mirror Universe already had cloaking devices in it!

 

[Crewman6]

Armin is also confused about how Klingon's have cloaking devices. Now fair enough actors aren't Star Trek experts but it's not like it's the first one we've ever seen in the show.

For someone who references TNG constantly in the reviews, it might have been nice if he ever watched it once in a while.