Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JacksonArcher, Jul 10, 2012.
And dead bodies cannot be moved after being buried.
I’m sure this has been discussed to death, but it’s a 67-page thread, so here goes.
I’m puzzled by the ending. There are two possible interpretations: Bruce survives and is at the cafe with Selina, or he dies and Alfred imagines him at the cafe with Selina.
The popular consensus seems to be that he survives. This raises a few issues:
He allows everyone to believe that he’s dead, including Alfred, which is devastating. Why not let Alfred know he’s still alive? Hiding the truth while Alfred mourns him seems cruel.
Just before leaving, he tells Selina that the Bat has no autopilot. If he reunites with her, what’s the point of lying to her?
Just before detonation, there’s a shot of Bruce and he appears to be piloting the Bat. If he isn’t, what is he doing?
The alternative is that Alfred imagines seeing Bruce and Selina at the cafe, just as he used to imagine seeing Bruce there the first time he went missing. The only problem I see with this is Lucius’s discovery that the autopilot had indeed been fixed. That’s fairly easy to dispose of by speculating that Bruce fixes the autopilot and then it’s damaged in action. It’s not much of a stretch.
So, what’s the deal?
It's not ambiguous at all. Bruce lives, retires to Europe with Selina, and arranges for Alfred to see him at that outdoor cafe Alfred was talking about earlier.
Hence, the scenes indicating that the autopilot actually worked, that the Bat-Signal was mysteriously repaired, that the pearl necklace was missing . . . all of which are set-up for the Big Reveal that Bruce and Selina are living happily ever after. None of those scenes make any sense or have any purpose otherwise.
Nothing in the script indicated that these things were anything less than concrete reality. All of that happened, just like it says in the script (and, ahem, the book).
Things change from script to screen all the time and any director can interpret the material in different ways when he goes to film it.
With that said my opinion leans more to the idea that yes Bruce didn't die. Although the Cat could have taken those pearls...
and escaping a nuclear blast wouldn't be easy.. http://www.nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/?lat=40.39034388651836&lng=-73.70771888671874&zm=10&kt=4000
I guess that’s authoritative. How do you answer the three bullet points?
Batman plays his cards close to his chest.
What’s going on in that final shot where it looks like he’s piloting the Bat?
It's sort of like when you want to propose to your girlfriend on your anniversary as a couple. You make plans to hang out, but then act as though there's nothing special about the day, and even play a bit distant. Then, when she's about to burst into tears, pop the ring. Or, for even greater effect, pop the ring right after she bursts into tears. Her charming moment of relief will make it all worthwhile!
... Yes, Nolan's Bruce Wayne totally sucks as a human being. Hell, he spends years holed up in his house and doesn't even get a dog. It's no coincidence that TDK, by far the best of the trilogy, has by far the least focus on him.
It isn't the lie she needs that defines her... it's what she does that serves as an incorruptible symbol of fear. Bat-fear.
... There's no point to the lie, other than for Nolan to fake us out, and make us think he actually will do something original.
This shot either comes from his imagination, or it occurred, and he did make that resigned face/sigh, but this shot is presented out of chronology, as part of Nolan's fake-out.
There are legitimate reasons for filmmakers to "lie" to or otherwise mess with the audience (Atonement presents several wonderful examples, as does Adaptation), but they should be in service of a theme. The kindest reason for Nolan to do this that I can think of offhand is he's representing Batman's final moment of sacrifice as subsequently imagined by the citizens of Gotham.
But the more honest answer is that he's just screwing with us for the sake of cheap emotional manipulation. TDKR is really pretty crap, IMO.
It's somewhat unusual to move them over 20 years after their deaths, you have to admit.
That assumes they weren't moved earlier. We didn't see the graves after they were buried in the first film, did we?
Didn't seem to be that there an last shots of Batman flying in the Bat after he takes off.
My thinking was when we see The Bat blow the top off a building before heading out the sea was the point at which Batman baled out (no pun intended) using the blast for cover.
what was the point of the bat-signal at the end? if Bruce was done with being batman then why have it?
It could be for Blake.
What I want to know is, what is Gordon supposed to think when he discovers the signal? As part of an apparent triptych of scenes featuring discoveries on the part of Batman's confidants ( Fox: autopilot, Alfred: cafe, Gordon: batsignal ), is it intended to hint at Wayne's survival?
If I were a criminal living in Gotham City, the Bat-signal would be more than enough to frighten me.
Don't we see him in the cockpit after that?
yes, at 0:06 seconds
if it was, that was dumb. Blake wasn't ready to be batman, he is a young cop with heart, but that's not enough. what if the league of shadows comes back?
but over time they would (criminals that is) realize there is no batman.
I don't know, criminals are a superstitious cowardly lot.
....?! You did watch ALL of the movie, right? All the way to the end credits?
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