The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

[nx1701g]

^ In the novel he was genuinely frightened of Bruce when he heard the Batman voice. It was like they were two different people he comments.

Ok I just reread the part where Lucius and Batman met.

The Dark Knight:
What Wayne had done with the technology Lucius' had given him was, in Lucius' opinion, pure evil. He had no doubt that Bruce Wayne was a good man, but he was starting to doubt Bruce's nocturnal alter ego, and the lengths that it seemed willing to go to. The lines that had been crossed... Maybe this was one of those three faces-of-Eve deals, different personalities inhabiting the same body. And maybe Lucius wasn't serving the good personality anymore.

 

[davejames]

which is the whole idea and why i *love* the Bat-voice. it's intimidating, yes, but it also serves to set Batman apart from Bruce.

i mean, honestly, how no one ever twigged Clooney-Bats or Kilmer-Bats were Bruce I will never know...

and as for Robin...

Yeah Clooney and Kilmer didn't even try to change their voice. Keaton did a better job, although he didn't really need to because you could barely recognize him with the costume on ANYWAY. lol

 

[davejames]

I liked how Batman didn't always show up when the bat signal was turned on and that Gordon and the force understood. It's a refreshing change from the old "he's not coming" let-down attitude we saw in the past. I've always figured that Batman can't always be there.

Speaking of which... wouldn't it be a lot more convenient for both of them if Batman just gave him his freakin cell phone number?

I mean, this isn't 1940 anymore. Technology HAS progressed since then. (Yeah yeah, I know the bat signal is part of the mythos and has to be there)

 

[DWF]

which is the whole idea and why i *love* the Bat-voice. it's intimidating, yes, but it also serves to set Batman apart from Bruce.

i mean, honestly, how no one ever twigged Clooney-Bats or Kilmer-Bats were Bruce I will never know...

and as for Robin...

Yeah Clooney and Kilmer didn't even try to change their voice. Keaton did a better job, although he didn't really need to because you could barely recognize him with the costume on ANYWAY. lol

No I thought Kilmer changed his voice more than once he had a public Bruce Wayne voice, a Batman voice and a private Bruce Wayne voice.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

I'm going to do a quick review, since I have been thinking about this movie a lot:

I liked it. It was a strong movie. Above average but there was something off. I had a lot of fun and Heath Ledger was the definitive live action Joker, but in all -- this movie was lacking something here or there.

The character development of Harvey Dent was the most uneven I believe. We don't see a lot of his 'dark' side. And even when we do, it is more believable that he is unhinged not because of psychological reasons but because of stress and fear. I also don't see him as "the white knight," simply because we are told. There isn't much action around him portraying him as the white knight. Yes, he goes after mobsters, and yes he is starting to clean up the streets but we can only assume this through words and not action. It would have been nice to see him actually going out like in the Long Halloween.

The Joker. I don't know. He was brilliant but again, something off. I wanted to see his parallel to the Dark Knight more than just that he is a deranged lunatic that dresses up. I wanted to see part of his origin because of the Dark Knight. He comes out of almost no where and has been making some noise for the past what? 6 months? I wanted to see a small flashback of him, how he became the Joker. I wanted him to be a two-bit criminal that crossed paths with the Dark Knight before and it was the Dark Knight that pushed him over the edge. As the Joker said, "you complete me." Why? Because it is the Dark Knight that created him. The Joker is interested in the Dark Knight psychologically, and as Terry said in Batman Beyond, it is because Batman is so serious, so uptight that is why the Joker is his foil, why he is interested in him. They are two halves of a whole.

Rachel should have left in Batman Begins. She should have taken a job in another city. She offered little to the story, except for an emotional outlet for the two main leads.

Harvey Dent's transformation into Two-Face was more believable physically than anything and I believe psychologically as well, even if we didn't see his Dark side before.

I didn't like how Gorden was promoted to Commissioner without having any evidence to back up how well he is doing. Show us, don't tell us.

Batman was Batman. And the minors did well like Fox and Alfred.

I still don't understand the whole Chinese plot, as it made absolutely no sense but eh. It's a comic book movie. Nothing too deep about that when things don't make sense.

 

[Timby]

The character development of Harvey Dent was the most uneven I believe. We don't see a lot of his 'dark' side. And even when we do, it is more believable that he is unhinged not because of psychological reasons but because of stress and fear. I also don't see him as "the white knight," simply because we are told.

While I disagree with your assertion that the Long Halloween approach was the one to take, I do agree that Dent's transformation into Two-Face was far weaker than it should have been. Dent's character would have been better served by replacing Rachel in Batman Begins with Dent, and allowing the character to develop across two movies.

I didn't like how Gorden was promoted to Commissioner without having any evidence to back up how well he is doing. Show us, don't tell us.

He had served his job well as a Sergeant, done the same as a Lieutenant, and had proven that he was a good, true, honest cop in a city with few such people. Don't forget that he was able to manage the outbreak in the Narrows (in Batman Begins) and had orchestrated the Joker's capture in The Dark Knight.

I still don't understand the whole Chinese plot, as it made absolutely no sense but eh. It's a comic book movie. Nothing too deep about that when things don't make sense.

The Nolans' script adhered to Anton Chekhov's idea that if a plot element were introduced in the first act of a story, it must be used by the third act of the story (otherwise, there was no point in adding that element in the first place). The Hong Kong subplot served to introduce the Batman's mini-C4 gun (or whatever the hell that thing was), as well as the sonar technology.

I'm not saying I like it, but I understand its placement in the story.

 

[Harvey]

I wish it had been explained as such in the film, but thanks for this. I don't suppose there's a webpage out there that explains microwaves in laymen's terms, is there?

Even if there is, there surely isn't one that explains non-dairy powdered creamer.

I'm sensing a story idea for the X-Files 3.

 

[nx1701g]

^ I don't think the box office will be high enough to warrant X-Files 3.

 

[Harvey]

^ I don't think the box office will be high enough to warrant X-Files 3.

Hey, a fanboy can dream, can't he?

Hold on, I'm going to go watch my copy of Buckaroo Bonzai vs. The World Crime League, and after that take a nap while Serenity 2: Electric Boogaloo and a third season of 24 that properly resolve the season 2 cliffhanger act as some nice background noise.

Oh, fanboy sadness.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

^ I don't think the box office will be high enough to warrant X-Files 3.

Hey, a fanboy can dream, can't he?

Hold on, I'm going to go watch my copy of Buckaroo Bonzai vs. The World Crime League, and after that take a nap while Serenity 2: Electric Boogaloo and a third season of 24 that properly resolve the season 2 cliffhanger act as some nice background noise.

Oh, fanboy sadness.

I don't suppose you have the fifth season of Farscape, too?

 

[nx1701g]

^ I do. It's called Stargate...

 

[The Nth Doctor]

^ I do. It's called Stargate...

I watched that and that was no Farscape. Thanks for trying.

 

[Trekker4747]

This works here probably as well as anywhere else, but the Angry Video Game Nerd takes a look at some Batman games for the NES, SNES, Sega CD and Commodore 64.

LINK

If you're not familliar with this guy, he takes a look at (old) video games and "reviews" them in an, er... "colorful" manner. WARNING: Graphic, vile, language.

 

[nx1701g]

^ I do. It's called Stargate...

I watched that and that was no Farscape. Thanks for trying.

Eh he shoots and misses. The Death Star has cleared the planet and now the Rebellion is destroyed.

Sorry, I'm in geek mode today.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

The character development of Harvey Dent was the most uneven I believe. We don't see a lot of his 'dark' side. And even when we do, it is more believable that he is unhinged not because of psychological reasons but because of stress and fear. I also don't see him as "the white knight," simply because we are told.

While I disagree with your assertion that the Long Halloween approach was the one to take, I do agree that Dent's transformation into Two-Face was far weaker than it should have been. Dent's character would have been better served by replacing Rachel in Batman Begins with Dent, and allowing the character to develop across two movies.

Well, I would have liked to see more of Harvey Dent's dark side. I understand that the effects of what happened (Rachel's death) and his disfiguring played a major part, and maybe I am transferring what I know of Dent to the character, about his two-sided personality. And maybe he is just unhinged by all of it? Who knows. But it was weak if Harvey Dent is suppose to be more like his comic book persona than anything.

I didn't like how Gorden was promoted to Commissioner without having any evidence to back up how well he is doing. Show us, don't tell us.

He had served his job well as a Sergeant, done the same as a Lieutenant, and had proven that he was a good, true, honest cop in a city with few such people. Don't forget that he was able to manage the outbreak in the Narrows (in Batman Begins) and had orchestrated the Joker's capture in The Dark Knight.

True, they TOLD us he was doing well. But to me it came out of the blue. Is Lieutenant Gordon the only cop on the force? And with Dent's comment earlier that he's been cleaning up the GCPD, I don't see Gordon as the only good cop. While he has an impressive record, the movie felt like there was more to Gordon. I am wondering about the GCPD because it all felt uneven.

I still don't understand the whole Chinese plot, as it made absolutely no sense but eh. It's a comic book movie. Nothing too deep about that when things don't make sense.

The Nolans' script adhered to Anton Chekhov's idea that if a plot element were introduced in the first act of a story, it must be used by the third act of the story (otherwise, there was no point in adding that element in the first place). The Hong Kong subplot served to introduce the Batman's mini-C4 gun (or whatever the hell that thing was), as well as the sonar technology.

I'm not saying I like it, but I understand its placement in the story.

True but I wish they cut out the entire Chinese plot. It made no sense to the story whatsoever.

 

[nx1701g]

The character development of Harvey Dent was the most uneven I believe. We don't see a lot of his 'dark' side. And even when we do, it is more believable that he is unhinged not because of psychological reasons but because of stress and fear. I also don't see him as "the white knight," simply because we are told.

While I disagree with your assertion that the Long Halloween approach was the one to take, I do agree that Dent's transformation into Two-Face was far weaker than it should have been. Dent's character would have been better served by replacing Rachel in Batman Begins with Dent, and allowing the character to develop across two movies.

Well, I would have liked to see more of Harvey Dent's dark side. I understand that the effects of what happened (Rachel's death) and his disfiguring played a major part, and maybe I am transferring what I know of Dent to the character, about his two-sided personality. And maybe he is just unhinged by all of it? Who knows. But it was weak if Harvey Dent is suppose to be more like his comic book persona than anything.

I personally would have liked to see him start off as Holiday.

 

[davejames]

I still don't understand the whole Chinese plot, as it made absolutely no sense but eh. It's a comic book movie. Nothing too deep about that when things don't make sense.

The Nolans' script adhered to Anton Chekhov's idea that if a plot element were introduced in the first act of a story, it must be used by the third act of the story (otherwise, there was no point in adding that element in the first place). The Hong Kong subplot served to introduce the Batman's mini-C4 gun (or whatever the hell that thing was), as well as the sonar technology.

I'm not saying I like it, but I understand its placement in the story.

True but I wish they cut out the entire Chinese plot. It made no sense to the story whatsoever.

Huh? I thought it was pretty clear that they needed to bring the guy back to Gotham to testify against the mob bosses. Seemed pretty straightforward to me.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

The Nolans' script adhered to Anton Chekhov's idea that if a plot element were introduced in the first act of a story, it must be used by the third act of the story (otherwise, there was no point in adding that element in the first place). The Hong Kong subplot served to introduce the Batman's mini-C4 gun (or whatever the hell that thing was), as well as the sonar technology.

I'm not saying I like it, but I understand its placement in the story.

True but I wish they cut out the entire Chinese plot. It made no sense to the story whatsoever.

Huh? I thought it was pretty clear that they needed to bring the guy back to Gotham to testify against the mob bosses. Seemed pretty straightforward to me.

Even in the 'comic book world', the abduction of a citizen outside United States jurisdiction is a bit iffy, if not highly illegal. It can be done if there is extraditing laws, but I highly doubt that China and the United States have extraditing laws.

First off, they didn't run it by the Mayor. Secondly, it was on the freaking NEWS. Third, even if the Chinese, ignored it, they would still be in there right to protest the kidnapping and incarceration of one of their citizens indefinitely. Fourth, since he died. Well that brings up even more repercussions not only for the GCPD, but for Gotham itself and the United States. What the hell are they going to say, "Oops our bad." Yeah, like that'll fly.

 

[PsychoPere]

True, they TOLD us he was doing well. But to me it came out of the blue. Is Lieutenant Gordon the only cop on the force? And with Dent's comment earlier that he's been cleaning up the GCPD, I don't see Gordon as the only good cop. While he has an impressive record, the movie felt like there was more to Gordon. I am wondering about the GCPD because it all felt uneven.

Don't forget to consider that Gordon was in charge of his own special squad, one that was apparently considered to be so important that it was given its own designated headquarters separate from any precincts or GCPD headquarters. Heading up the Major Crimes Unit may well have been an important reason Mayor Garcia promoted Gordon, despite Loeb's belief that Gordon was unlikely to ever ascend that high within the GCPD.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

True but there were corrupt cops still in Gordon's unit. I just don't SEE how they made it. I understand it but too much dialogue, not enough showing. I wanted to see Gordon do more than break into a few banks. I wanted him to go after some of the petty criminals set free in Batman Begins.