I think I will stick to my own opinion or judgment, thanks.
AotC... the one with Padme in a bodice telling Ani to go away?
I'm supposed to dismiss AOTC because of one costume?
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Spoilers The Controversial Star Wars Opinion Thread
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I think I will stick to my own opinion or judgment, thanks.
I'm supposed to dismiss AOTC because of one costume?
There was nothing prescriptive in the Commander's comments. No one is telling anyone to dismiss anything. Just differing opinions.I'm supposed to dismiss AOTC because of one costume?
Yeah, I'd call that a radical interpretation of the text. Pointing out Padme's poor grasp on what "mixed signals" means hardly counts as a refutation of the whole endeavour. If anything it just helps to illustrate just how that relationship even got started, since only someone with seriously questionable judgment could listen to a confession of mass murder, up to and including *multiple* infanticides and think to themselves "But I can fix him!"
I mean come on, she got married to a person she hadn't seen in a decade (at which time he was a literal child) after barely spending half a week with him as an adult. That's just bonkers. But also clearly a pattern of behaviour, and a consistent characterisation. So the movie was doing it right the whole time.
I mean come on, she got married to a person she hadn't seen in a decade (at which time he was a literal child) after barely spending half a week with him as an adult. That's just bonkers. But also clearly a pattern of behaviour, and a consistent characterisation. So the movie was doing it right the whole time.
Yeah, I know the Anakin/Padme romance is considered a low point but I honestly never saw it that way. Both come from extremely different backgrounds, with less normalized social interactions, and more class based. There is nothing for them to hold on to as a "normal" romantic interest. They are closer to more a knight and a high class lady style romance, than a contemporary romantic comedy.
Regardless, the idea of "I can fix him" is a common attitude in relationships. An adage I read once, that still seems appropriate, is "Women marry a man expecting him to change. A man marries a woman expecting her to never change." The fact that Anakin struggled with fear of loss would only feed in to that insecurity if Padme changed at all.
Regardless, the idea of "I can fix him" is a common attitude in relationships. An adage I read once, that still seems appropriate, is "Women marry a man expecting him to change. A man marries a woman expecting her to never change." The fact that Anakin struggled with fear of loss would only feed in to that insecurity if Padme changed at all.
Agreed--and the fatal flaw of the film is that something no film ever needs to tell its story--a novel--made sense out of a scene. The film has contradictory portrayals of Obi-Wan, where he's somehow befuddled by Dooku (a person with skills he's very familiar with by the time of ROTS), yet consistently out-thinks all other lightsaber wielding opponents in the PT (and I'm not even getting into that "Dooku was using Form Whatever" as a justification for Kenobi apparently learning nothing about dealing with Dooku). All a poor set-up for Anakin to be "alone" long enough for Palpatine to con him into killing Dooku.
I wasn't criticising; I was agreeing.
The only Force users I have ever seen Obi-Wan fight on screen and in live action were Maul, Dooku and Anakin (I refuse to consider Grievous as a serious contender). He was VERY lucky with Maul, due to the latter's cockiness after he had shoved Obi-Wan over that ledge. I won't mention that ludicrous duel in "Rebels". And he was very lucky with Anakin, whose emotions seemed to get the best of him when dealing with Obi-Wan. He was able to defeat both Maul and Anakin . . . eventually . . . due to their lack of emotional control, whether it was Maul's cockiness or Anakin's anger. As for Dooku, well Obi-Wan never had such advantages. I don't know about Maul, but if Obi-Wan had ever faced Anakin with the latter's emotions in complete control, I don't think he would have survived. No one has noticed this?
I never did, aside from that fireplace scene in "Attack of the Clones". I had a problem with Anakin spouting that Shakespearean dialogue, while trying to woo Padme. At age 19, Hayden Christensen was too young to handle that dialogue. And it only reminded me of my dissatisfaction with James McAvoy and Keira Knightley's attempts to spout 1930s style movie dialogue in "Atonement".
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A smart and artistic duel.
No, of course not. It's a scene I find unintentionally funny and it takes me out of the film.I'm supposed to dismiss AOTC because of one costume?
Easily. And despite what others might claim; 100% faithful to Lucas's style and sensibilities.
Exhibit A, the prototypical cantina scene from one of the very first treatments/synopsis of 'The Star Wars': -
That scene is still unintentionally funny to me, but overall it's not as cringe inducing as others will say that it is. The awkwardness feels appropriate rather than just poorly done romance. Though they levitating fruit scene was much better than the fire place scene, in my opinion.
Yup. Some 20 years ago now my friends and I wanted to do a lightsaber fight. My uncle, a verteran and combat instructor, offered to help us learn the basics of combat and fighting with a sword. The first thing we watched was "Seven Samurai." The fundamentals of what Lucas wanted to create were right there to me. Never found other lightsaber fights as satisfying as watching the "Twin Suns" duel. Art, storytelling and combat effectiveness all in one.
Obi-Wan baits Maul with Qui-Gon's stance. That is the beauty of the whole scene is not just the lightsaber clash, but the tension between the two characters as Maul postures and Obi-Wan reacts by going to his old self (Clone Wars), new self (A New Hope defensive pose) and then adjusts to see if Maul will take the bait. And he does. And then, more incredibly, Obi-Wan cradles Maul the exact same way he holds Satine and Qui-Gon as they die. Beautiful scene.
Whenever people say it's too short I simply say "What more would you add to tell the story?"
Obi-Wan still had the skill to counter much of what this trained "Jedi killer" had to put out; some claim it was due to being fueled by anger (in the wake of Maul cutting down Jinn), but the ability was all Kenobi's and he was--ultimately--more intelligent than snarling Maul.
I have to disagree; yes, Anakin was enraged, but that does not necessarily blind one to the dangers of a fight (it did not in Sidious' case vs. Yoda). Obi-Wan not only knew Anakin's every move, but was a thinker who knew he had tactical advantages over someone arrogant enough to believe he was all-powerful (thus nullifying experience--or so Anakin believed)--ever the mindset of one doomed to fail.
Agreed. I was glad to see a conflict based not on idiotic, Nick Gillard influenced saber-twirling / somersaults and posturing, but experience which can turn defense into offense, as in real world fights. Maul was dumb as ever, running headlong into someone who could see his every move coming, and stood his ground the entire time. That brief duel was far more satisfying (and true to the Kenobi character) than anything seen in the D+ Obi-Wan Kenobi series.
Exactly. Maul's whole story is about not being able to learn from his mistakes, not being able to move on, and not being able to break out of a tragic cycle of his own making. Often likened to Sisyphus by Witwer; it's entirely appropriate that Maul died trying to repeat a past success and settle an old grudge.
Indeed, I love how the fight was over before the first blow was even struck. Maul lost the second he recognised Qui-Gon's stance.
Fights in storytelling ought to always have a narrative purpose and a microcosm story all their own, and Star Wars is usually very good about doing that. Whether it's short and efficient like this one, or Ahsoka vs. Mr Deflatable Head, long and drawn out like the Duel of Fates, or Yoda vs. Sidious. They each tell a different story and are appropriate to their respective contexts.
Side note: a key detail people often miss when talking about how long and elaborate the Duel of Fates was, is that part of the reason things went the way they did is because Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were trying to bring Maul in alive. Their mission on Naboo was explicitly to "unravel the mystery of the Sith". They can't really do that with a corpse. Had they both been going in for the kill from the start, it would have been a much shorter fight. (see also: the Ahsoka vs. The Magistrate)
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Put me in the camp that loves the Twin Suns duel. I think it's the most beautiful, character driven and perfectly executed lightsaber battle in the entire saga thus far.
Something I think a lot of people miss when talking about the fight, labeling it too short, is that the fight actually starts well before either combatant ignites their weapon. For Maul it begins the moment he speaks, his every word a kind of assault on his nemesis. For Obi-wan it begins in the same moment it ends for Maul, when Maul puts two and two together and connects Obi-Wan to Luke.
The beauty in the action is how well it captures both characters and their journeys to this moment. For Maul, willing to move heaven and earth for the chance at finally besting the man who he has poured all his hate and rage into but utterly unable to escape either the hate or the rage and move on. Trapped forever in a cycle of self-victimization that keeps him from finally finding peace. For Kenobi, a man who has found the perfect peace of absolute purpose, whose entire will and focus is centered on the certainty of the task he has adopted. Kenobi doesn't care in the slightest about Maul's grudge, not anymore. All the petty feuds and rivalries of the past have been set aside as he watches over Luke and devotes his energy to the boy's future.
But the moment Maul threatens the boy? He is already dead, and Kenobi has yet to draw his weapon. It isn't done maliciously, gleefully, or with anything other than the sadness of waste. Both of the potential Maul squandered in his inability to let go and of the hope that Kenobi clung to that Maul could, in the end, change. But it MUST be the outcome, for Kenobi's purpose is, ultimately, absolute and unwavering.
Something I think a lot of people miss when talking about the fight, labeling it too short, is that the fight actually starts well before either combatant ignites their weapon. For Maul it begins the moment he speaks, his every word a kind of assault on his nemesis. For Obi-wan it begins in the same moment it ends for Maul, when Maul puts two and two together and connects Obi-Wan to Luke.
The beauty in the action is how well it captures both characters and their journeys to this moment. For Maul, willing to move heaven and earth for the chance at finally besting the man who he has poured all his hate and rage into but utterly unable to escape either the hate or the rage and move on. Trapped forever in a cycle of self-victimization that keeps him from finally finding peace. For Kenobi, a man who has found the perfect peace of absolute purpose, whose entire will and focus is centered on the certainty of the task he has adopted. Kenobi doesn't care in the slightest about Maul's grudge, not anymore. All the petty feuds and rivalries of the past have been set aside as he watches over Luke and devotes his energy to the boy's future.
But the moment Maul threatens the boy? He is already dead, and Kenobi has yet to draw his weapon. It isn't done maliciously, gleefully, or with anything other than the sadness of waste. Both of the potential Maul squandered in his inability to let go and of the hope that Kenobi clung to that Maul could, in the end, change. But it MUST be the outcome, for Kenobi's purpose is, ultimately, absolute and unwavering.
That doesn't really work for me, from a visual point-of-view. It just doesn't. To focus the majority of a sword duel on the build-up, words and looks? No thank you. I still think that duel from "Rebels" was utter crap.
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