The conflicting accounts of Nichelle Nichols meeting MLK (with sources)

[Commishsleer]

This is probably the reason I haven't had any trouble believing this. I had never heard the story until that media blitz occurred, and I saw no reason to doubt it because of my belief that most people are trustworthy enough to tell the truth about themselves on a regular basis.

Theres an article from 1979 saying that she was a "good friend" of Dr Martin Luther King. So in the publicity for TMP I suppose . But thats I suppose the occasion that reporters would be interviewing her.

As regards the truth, a lot of people lie or exaggerate to make themselves look good. I have seen it at work so often, people taking credit for other people's work, blaming others when out of earshot.

Not saying that Nicholls did. Just because people say something doesn't mean its true. And if it was a lie or a misremembering or mixing up two incidents then it was probably done for a good reason.

Anything that encourage people to strive for better is a good thing. I've just enrolled in a computer cyber crimes course at my local college. Out of 24 students theres only one female - that's me. Come on ladies, get into technical fields!

However if you're 'a fact checker' your job is to give us the facts not just what we want to believe.

 

[plynch]

IF it's not true or barely true
And was relayed as factual
I cannot call that a "good"
Even if it inspired people

2. BUT -- (aside) Go nuts in your cybercrime course! Bless other people with your skills. Supercool.

 

[Maurice]

"And is it likely" is asking for speculation, whereas I am merely noting some of the data we've collected and are still collecting. NN's early portrayals of her planning to leave Star Trek are not entirely consistent, and in some instances mutually contradictory, but there are a number of reasons why that might be.

 

[SolarisOne]

1) House was referring to lying to oneself. *

I'm well aware. And I think it's relevant. It's very easy to convince oneself that something happened one way, when it really happened a different way--or not at all.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

The thing with her story is that it's self-flattering in two ways:

1) I had an on-camera job in prime time, network television, and yet I wanted to leave for better opportunities. That's how big a deal I was.

2) The most revered civil rights leader in the country thought so highly of me that he talked me into staying on television. That's how big a deal I was.

If she had a varying tale of how she got an ear infection treated in L.A., and later said Chicago, no one would care. But public figures are faced with the never-ending chore of making themselves appear interesting. It's almost like the "publish or perish" problem in academia. This makes self-aggrandizing anecdotes a little more suspect. There's just too much temptation to improve on the truth.

That said, and as everyone else has said, some part of her story might be true. But if she didn't stick to a consistent set of specific facts, doubt is baked into the cake. And I feel bad about that. The whole controversy might be unjustified.

If it were just a matter of NN scholarship, I'd be inclined to let her have it. But it's also a matter of MLK scholarship: people want to know just what he said and did. That's why the truth kind of matters here.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

If it were just a matter of NN scholarship, I'd be inclined to let her have it. But it's also a matter of MLK scholarship: people want to know just what he said and did. That's why the truth kind of matters here.

Well said.

 

[dswynne1]

I'm adapting this from a Reddit comment I made. Since I spent all the time chasing down the links for that, I thought it should be copied to somewhere that it's a little more relevant than r/television. I want to make it clear right from the start that I'm not accusing Nichelle Nichols of active dishonesty or malicious deception. I'm a big fan of Stan Lee, and he's made some inconsistent claims too. It happens when you're a celebrity and you tell the same story a bunch of times. It's like you're playing a game of telephone with yourself. But in the interest of historical accuracy, I think we should be realistic about the fact that we don't really know exactly what happened...

The story of MLK convincing Nichelle Nichols to not quit Star Trek is often told, but I feel the need to point out that this tale has some indications of a "fish story" that grew larger in the telling. For instance, in this interview, Nichols describes meeting MLK and immediately having that conversation about how she was thinking about quitting and he tells her not to. In other accounts (such as this one), her in-person meeting with MLK was just a passing greeting, as often happens with one celebrity meeting another, and then it was a later phone call where he urged her not to quit. In fact, there was even a Reddit AMA where Nichols specifically says that the phone call was "quite some time after I first met him," contrary to the immediacy that there seemed to be in that first version of the story (that also came straight from her). There's also a less common version where she just received a letter from MLK (this one seems the least likely to me, not just because of how rarely that version comes up, but also because if such a letter existed, I think we would've seen it by now).

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying none of this happened. It's probable that there's some kernel of truth to the story, but we need to be realistic about the fact that we don't know exactly what it is, given the conflicting accounts. In that AMA comment, Nichols even acknowledges herself that "I had several conversations with him over the years, and it sounds like the stories have gotten mixed and confused."

Interesting. Reading this posting, I am reminded of those websites that attempts to undercut minority contributions or achievements, for the sake of "truth". Not that this post comes from any malicious intent, but it is odd that this topic warrants discussion.

 

[plynch]

Lots and lots of topics warrant discussion.
Lots get discussed here.
Occasionally one involves a person of color.

 

[BK613]

I don't know what part it may have played in her MLK story but Nichelle Nichols (and her role on Star Trek) was the cover feature of the January 1967 issue of Ebony magazine. Could be the reason MLK might have been aware of her and her place on TV.

edit:to add link to issue

 

[amp]

We've been around this on the board quite a number of times over the years. What set off alarm bells initially was that some fans who'd been to conventions in the 70s recalled she told a different version of the story, and the story as we know it now didn't really materialize until around the time of the publicity blitz near ST4 in 1986.

It's important to note that MLK was a very controversial and unpopular person in the late 60s and early 70s especially among white Americans. In 1966, 63% of Americans had a negative view of King according to Gallup and the year he died Harris polled his negative rating at 75%. It was only decades later that he became a beloved figure.

I have no idea of what transpired between King and Nichols, but it's not surprising to me that she didn't talk about him to mostly white audiences at cons in the 60s and 70s. Her story wouldn't have been received as the heartwarming tale we think it is today, but probably would have been met with stoney silence at best and maybe even some boos.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's important to note that MLK was a very controversial and unpopular person in the late 60s and early 70s especially among white Americans. In 1966, 63% of Americans had a negative view of King according to Gallup and the year he died Harris polled his negative rating at 75%. It was only decades later that he became a beloved figure.

I have no idea of what transpired between King and Nichols, but it's not surprising to me that she didn't talk about him to mostly white audiences at cons in the 60s and 70s. Her story wouldn't have been received as the heartwarming tale we think it is today, but probably would have been met with stoney silence at best and maybe even some boos.

I dunno. Star Trek at the time was being spun by GR and others as part of the counter culture, very pro civil rights and progressive.

 

[Maurice]

...I have no idea of what transpired between King and Nichols, but it's not surprising to me that she didn't talk about him to mostly white audiences at cons in the 60s and 70s...

There were no Trek cons in the 60s. That phenomenon kicked off in the early 70s.

Anyway, several people who attended cons in the 70s say she mentioned him, just not that she met him.

 

[amp]

I dunno. Star Trek at the time was being spun by GR and others as part of the counter culture, very pro civil rights and progressive.

If you read the links I posted you'll see that by the time of his death King had lost much of the support he had, even amongst people who considered themselves "pro civil rights and progressive."

There were no Trek cons in the 60s. That phenomenon licked off in the early 70s.

Anyway, several people who attended cons in the 70s say she mentioned him, just not that she met him.

But there were still sci-fi cons, right even if they weren't specific to Trek? I remember some stories about cast members attending them even while the show was still airing. In any case it doesn't matter. My point was that the public perception of King was very different back then and personal stories about him wouldn't have been received the same way as today.

 

[Nerys Myk]

If you read the links I posted you'll see that by the time of his death King had lost much of the support he had, even amongst people who considered themselves "pro civil rights and progressive."

Yes, but the time period in question is the early 70's.

 

[BillJ]

If you read the links I posted you'll see that by the time of his death King had lost much of the support he had, even amongst people who considered themselves "pro civil rights and progressive."

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything? All it takes is for Nichols to think highly of him.

 

[Maurice]

I think a lot of people changed their minds about King after his assassination. People who loved Uhura and what she symbolized and would want to hear Nichols talk seem unlikely to have been anti-King. But my cursory look for polling on attitudes towards MLK has yielded nothing useful.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

The impression I get, is he thought just the mere presence of an African women being represented as a capable part of a more advanced humanity, in a brighter future, even in such a superficial capacity, on the show, was something legitimizing for the culture's art to be depicting, & society to be seeing as normal, because those attitudes were sorely needed, & hardly present.

Certainly. Many on this thread can always downplay Uhura here as a mere "switch operator", but for 1966 seeing a black woman as a full fledged OFFICER among ethnically diverse men in space was a very positive thing to depict, especially for black kids growing up. One of them was in fact Whoppi Goldberg, who has gone onto say how inspiring it was seeing Uhura on TV. There may have never been Uhura-centric stories like there would be for characters on spin-off shows, but she was there. A considerable upgrade from the pilot, given how very white that cast was in "The Cage"

Consider this gif of Uhura, being called in as a relief officer for the helm, showing she was not only a capable officer but a versatile one.

 

[The Old Mixer]

MLK's alleged unpopularity with whites at the time didn't stop this from hitting #4 on the pop chart and #8 on the easy listening chart in late 1968:

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If it were just a matter of NN scholarship, I'd be inclined to let her have it. But it's also a matter of MLK scholarship: people want to know just what he said and did. That's why the truth kind of matters here.

Well said.

Indeed. If Nichelle had been telling a story for years about how her local minister persuaded her to stay on the show, we probably wouldn't be discussing it. And it brings to mind a question that I had about this post...

2) Anything an individual says about themself is the absolute truth unless someone else can present definite proof they're lying
3) Anything an individual says about someone else is an absolute lie unless they themself can present definite proof it is the truth

And which does this situation fall under? Seems like those two options would be contradictory here and in many another situation involving what somebody has to say regarding something they did that involved another person.

 

[amp]

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything? All it takes is for Nichols to think highly of him.

My point is that conventions are entertainment and the actors on the stage are performers. If they feel that an anecdote will be received badly, they aren't likely to tell it. Look, I don't claim to know what's in NN's mind. But I think it's a possible explanation as to why she may not have publicly related this story in the 70s.

I think a lot of people changed their minds about King after his assassination.

Attitudes changed, but not all at once. A poll shortly after his death said that 1/3 of Americans thought he brought his assassination upon himself. By the time MLK Day became a national holiday in 1983 he was viewed mostly favorably, but it was hardly universal. I'm old enough to remember the debate over the federal holiday and it was quite contentious. (And it continued into the 90s on a state-by-state basis.)

People who loved Uhura and what she symbolized and would want to hear Nichols talk seem unlikely to have been anti-King. But my cursory look for polling on attitudes towards MLK has yielded nothing useful.

We all know folks who love an actor or a musician or an athlete, but get really bent out of shape when even a hint of politics gets brought up.

 

[Maurice]

As I've repeatedly written, there are fans who attended cons in the 70s who say she mentioned MLK but not in the same context that her later versions of the story differ. But we haven't found an account of such a telling, so it's possible those people are misremembering.

I'm really not interested in playing games of speculation, which is why we're still compiling materials on NN's King anecdotes and related matters. I prefer to leave speculation posing as fact to Cash Markman.