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Spoilers The Clone Wars - Season 7 Discussion [SPOILERS]

Dooku did tell Obi-Wan that Sidious controlled the Senate, but in the films I didn't see that he actually believed Dooku. And while I recall some of the novels-Labyrinth of Evil and the ROTS novelization-having the Jedi be suspicious that Palpatine or someone close to him was being manipulated by Sidious, I didn't see them say that in the films. Perhaps it's been explained in one of the Disney comics or novels that I am not aware of, but it felt off to me that Obi-Wan would just casually say that Sidious was playing both sides.
I think the implication, both in the novel, but also in the Clone Wars series, is that they are pursuing leads connecting Sidious to someone in the Republic leadership. At least, that was my impression from watching the episodes, but my readig the books might have colored that.
And if the Jedi knew that, why were they still fighting?
They can't afford the public pushback. That's the whole reason the Jedi are fighting to begin with. It's a terrible reason but Jedi feel the need to be fighting for the Republic, no matter what. Sadly, and even the final stories showcase this, the Jedi were poorly equipped to be generals.
 
Near the end of the Clone Wars, while investigating the death of Sifo Dyas, Obi-wan and Anakin had discovered that Count Dooku was the mysterious Tyrannus that Jango Fett mentioned, and with that and a few other pieces from Yoda had figured out that the Clones had been created by the Sith for an unknown purpose. The problem they had was that they couldn't focus on it with the war going on. This prompted the Jedi to double down on finishing the war as quickly as possible so they could figure out the plot of the Sith Lords. They knew someone connected to the Senate was being controlled by the other Sith Lord, and even got the name Sidious at some point. While they briefly thought that Maul was the remaining second Sith, Maul himself dispelled that one. So the Jedi kept an eye on the Senate and as the war came to a close, the Chancellor. Yoda was getting close to the truth, but came to the conclusion that the path ahead was going to be horrible no matter what he did, and thus started to mentally prepare for the worst. he wasn't too surprised by Anakin's turn, having figured out Skywalker was the linchpin. Just not what was going to tip the balance after Ahsoka left the Order.
 
Just watched the last 4 episodes last night. I was doing a full rewatch of the series and didn't get to the last season until this week.

The first arc of the season was ok. I thought the second arc was awful.

But that LAST arc? That was everything Star Wars should be. This is what happens when talented writers go all out.

I thought this 4 episode arc was as good as the sequel trilogy was terrible. And Filoni shows just how you can have a female protagonist without her coming off as some magical woke Mary Sue that is better than people who trained their whole lives. Ahsoka was awesome in this arc. Unlike Rey, she WAS very well trained and it worked perfectly.

And it was interesting how hard she tried not to kill the Clones but they died anyway. Great to see how Rex's chip was removed and how she survived order 66.

I'm also glad they had Rex make the point that the order was to kill Jedi and she wasn't one.

I do have one question, and I don't know if it was ever answered. Given Palpatine's preparedness, is it possible that he had the chips programmed to spare Anakin? If not, why didn't the clones attack Vader?

And speaking of Vader, I was hoping we would get a scene with him. I wonder how much time passed.

I would love to see a follow up with Vader as a main character. I really want to see Vader doing Vader things, early in the days of the Empire.
 
Just watched the last 4 episodes last night. I was doing a full rewatch of the series and didn't get to the last season until this week.

The first arc of the season was ok. I thought the second arc was awful.

But that LAST arc? That was everything Star Wars should be. This is what happens when talented writers go all out.

I thought this 4 episode arc was as good as the sequel trilogy was terrible. And Filoni shows just how you can have a female protagonist without her coming off as some magical woke Mary Sue that is better than people who trained their whole lives. Ahsoka was awesome in this arc. Unlike Rey, she WAS very well trained and it worked perfectly.

And it was interesting how hard she tried not to kill the Clones but they died anyway. Great to see how Rex's chip was removed and how she survived order 66.

I'm also glad they had Rex make the point that the order was to kill Jedi and she wasn't one.

I do have one question, and I don't know if it was ever answered. Given Palpatine's preparedness, is it possible that he had the chips programmed to spare Anakin? If not, why didn't the clones attack Vader?

And speaking of Vader, I was hoping we would get a scene with him. I wonder how much time passed.

I would love to see a follow up with Vader as a main character. I really want to see Vader doing Vader things, early in the days of the Empire.
They already covered that with the second Darth Vader comic series.
 
I don't want to see comics. I want to see a cartoon. Besides, they aren't bound by comics. Imagine getting James Earl Jones to voice a series.

I have the same problem with this idea that I have with the comics: they won't do anything, perhaps can't do anything, that won't water down Vader. Vader comes with an inherent problem, namely his redemption.

You could have Vader doing delightfully villainous things that make the sacking of the Jedi Temple look like a slow Tuesday. Annihilating foes and crushing all who stand before him. But how does that dovetail into his ultimate fate? Either you undermine his redemption in ROTJ, by having it turn out that the throne room is the only good deed he's done in decades of being a homicidal thug. Which ultimately makes his redemption hollow and without real meaning. You just can't walk back some things, no matter how you try.

Or he has to be an ever conflicted tragic "hero." Who can never be a true monster, and thus can never really be anything more than what we've already seen. I don't need to sit through episodes of Vader being secretly mopey because he hates himself for being the Emperor's lapdog.

The drama of Vader comes not from the character himself, but from his interactions with the people who knew him when he was Anakin (or would have wanted to, such as Luke). And we've covered all of those bases already.

In order for Vader to be effective in any other context, I think he has to be an antagonist to other characters. Characters who we can be made to cheer for, and who we'll want to see escape him, but who we know probably won't. Use the "legend" of Vader, but not the man. The less we see of him ,the better. Because every time we see him, he loses that mystery, and that edge. Vader is effective because of what he MIGHT have done, what he was capable of. Think about the way he's used in the OT prior to the ESB reveal. Less is more.
 
You could have Vader doing delightfully villainous things that make the sacking of the Jedi Temple look like a slow Tuesday. Annihilating foes and crushing all who stand before him. But how does that dovetail into his ultimate fate? Either you undermine his redemption in ROTJ, by having it turn out that the throne room is the only good deed he's done in decades of being a homicidal thug. Which ultimately makes his redemption hollow and without real meaning. You just can't walk back some things, no matter how you try.
Maybe he's Catholic.
 
I have the same problem with this idea that I have with the comics: they won't do anything, perhaps can't do anything, that won't water down Vader. Vader comes with an inherent problem, namely his redemption.

You could have Vader doing delightfully villainous things that make the sacking of the Jedi Temple look like a slow Tuesday. Annihilating foes and crushing all who stand before him. But how does that dovetail into his ultimate fate? Either you undermine his redemption in ROTJ, by having it turn out that the throne room is the only good deed he's done in decades of being a homicidal thug. Which ultimately makes his redemption hollow and without real meaning. You just can't walk back some things, no matter how you try.

Or he has to be an ever conflicted tragic "hero." Who can never be a true monster, and thus can never really be anything more than what we've already seen. I don't need to sit through episodes of Vader being secretly mopey because he hates himself for being the Emperor's lapdog.

The drama of Vader comes not from the character himself, but from his interactions with the people who knew him when he was Anakin (or would have wanted to, such as Luke). And we've covered all of those bases already.

In order for Vader to be effective in any other context, I think he has to be an antagonist to other characters. Characters who we can be made to cheer for, and who we'll want to see escape him, but who we know probably won't. Use the "legend" of Vader, but not the man. The less we see of him ,the better. Because every time we see him, he loses that mystery, and that edge. Vader is effective because of what he MIGHT have done, what he was capable of. Think about the way he's used in the OT prior to the ESB reveal. Less is more.
This is my feeling as well. Vader as a protagonist is a terrible idea, to my mind.
 
Yeah, pretty much for the first 15-20 years or so he just alternated between hunting Jedi, scaring the ever loving shit out of his Inquisitors, pining for Padme, all interspersed by just sitting in his tank or chamber, seething with utter hatred for literally everything in the universe. Not exactly a lot of interesting material there for a weekly TV show.

The comics did a very good job, but those are the kinds of stories that don't translate all that well into other mediums, except maybe prose.
 
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I don't want to see comics. I want to see a cartoon. Besides, they aren't bound by comics. Imagine getting James Earl Jones to voice a series.
Even if the comics aren't as canon as they like to say they are, the fact that they've covered so much of Vader's history there, seems like a pretty clear indicator to me that they have no intention of doing it anywhere else. If they were even considering a Vader movie or show, they probably wouldn't have done so many comics focused on him.
 
So I’ve tried watching The Clone Wars three times over the last few years. The farthest I ever got was the middle of season 3. I just don’t like it. However I love Ahsoka! And Rebels was awesome!

Hearing that the final season was Ahsoka-centric I decided to watch a recap of 1-6 before 7.

Those final 4 episodes were unbelievable! Ahsoka being a total badass and holding her own against Maul! Also no Anakin, almost zero Padme, and very little Obi-Wan throughout the season was a plus for me. They really went all-out for the ending! It was nice to see that Ahsoka saved Rex too.

Where was C-3PO though?

I realize I’m the oddball in my dislike for the show but I just wanted to sing those final episodes praises.
 
Where was C-3PO though?
During the final arc? Right here, mostly.
I realize I’m the oddball in my dislike for the show but I just wanted to sing those final episodes praises.
Did you get as far as the 12th episode of season 3? Because if not, you may have stopped *right* before the show really kicks into gear.
It is tough going the first few seasons, and it's not like it's flawless from there on out either (I really don't like the 'secret weapons' arc) but once the Nightsisters come into play, the average level of storytelling really jumps up a notch.
 
I stopped at Overlords. The two Nightsisters episodes were really good, probably the only ones I enjoyed up until then.

After watching season 7 and loving the Maul stuff I found about about The Return Of Maul episodes, so I tried giving them a go but gave up due to boredom. I just don’t think the show is for me.
 
Clone Wars during the first three seasons could be a lot of hit or miss with no real middle ground. The episodes were either really good or really boring. Seasons 4 and 5 knock it right out of the park, for the most part.
 
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