The Claustrophobic Feel of Enterprise

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by GulBahana, May 4, 2019.

  1. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Possible but IMHO quite improbable. Yes, I think the comma is there, too - the "which" refers to everything previously said, not narrowly to the shortcomings of the ships. But no, I don't see Starfleet adopting these policies.

    And there's no need for it to. In "Minefield", we saw Starfleet perfectly willing to speak face to face, and Romulans utterly unwilling. This would be likely to remain the case in open warfare, too: Earth policy would be to negotiate, but the Romulan policy would be not to, and the Romulan policy would automatically triumph over the Earth one, because all it takes is refusal to turn on your camera.

    Likewise, Earth would have a policy of taking prisoners, by ample precedent both from the real world and from ENT, but Romulans would have a policy of not getting captured, by inference from other Trek spinoffs. And eventually this would force Earth to change its policy, when every "captive" turned out to be a suicide bomber, every "surrender" a preamble to a destructive scuttling. Earth need not ever stop hailing Romulans visually, but Earth would need to stop trying to board Romulan ships at some point.

    These two already established Starfleet policies negated by their Romulan counterparts explain some of the faceless enemy stuff. Drone warfare and general misdirection helps further there, again established in ENT. Ground warfare with exclusively Reman troops only helps if Earth somehow learns that these are not the real Romulans, though - but this might happen, too.

    As for the capabilities of Archer's ship, it's remarkable that we never saw a ship or a shuttle in ENT that would have been incapable of holding a prisoner. Indeed, the small craft seen from the inside in the show were generally vehicles for prisoner transports first and foremost - if not by the in-universe design, then by the dramatic role. We saw bounty hunters, evil authorities, agents on a mission, criminals of all sorts, and basically all of them took Archer captive! Doing so is easy in the ENT universe. So consistency with the TOS universe would have to come from the enemies of Earth in wartime being better prepared against capture than Starfleet in peacetime. Which isn't all that exacting a requirement, really.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  2. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed with others. The ship interiors weren't claustrophic enough to give that submarine-like feel that they were going for.

    Kor
     
  3. XCV330

    XCV330 Premium Member

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    I've seen a commercial boat on the Mississippi river use a closet as a brig when a crew member broke the mate's arm with a broken broom handle, until the local police could get down to the river side and drive him off to jail.

    I would have liked to have seen them do something similar on NX-01 on the one or two times it was seen having a brig: just a closet or storage bin with ventilation and a bucket :D
     
  4. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    The saucer section is almost exactly the same size as the 1701's, just more machinary but enough room to move around E deck without meeting a lot of the crew during duty hours.
     
  5. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

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    Like the one on the Defiant, where we saw that real Bashir (the first time he was switched...) was banging and screaming?
     
  6. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yup. Although since the good guys previously were locking up suspects in their cabins, we might argue the bad guy locked up the real Bashir in said, too (it is, after all, a cabin door we're seeing, even if there's a back wall to it - could be there was a tight turn necessitated by the geometry of the cramped little ship). Might well have been Bashir's own quarters; as far as we can tell, he has the luxury of bunking alone.

    http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x26/theadversary_499.jpg

    Whether all of Archer's officers had that luxury, we can't exactly tell. But it would seem reasonable, when we do see a couple of Ensigns living all alone. Crew berthing in the fashion of Daniels' multi-bunk cabin sounds probable, too. And they could shuffle the occupants at will, and seal off Daniels' room, so space wasn't exactly at a premium even if we discount the big empty spaces available for basketball and whatnot.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  7. Tiphanie

    Tiphanie Ensign Newbie

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    I think they did well with the design of the ship. I think the space was tight enough to be realistic for a starship at that time.
    I agree it wasn't exactly a submarine feel, but still convincing...
     
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  8. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I LOVE the claustrophobic feel, how it's like being on a submarine at times. It's one of my favorite elements of ENT (and the NX-01 is my favorite ship). I like how utilitarian everything is. I loathed TNG's Hilton effect, I want adventure not a hotel lobby.

    ENT kind of tripped over itself early on trying to explain that all these people were fresh and new to space but the ship made up for it :)
     
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  9. Anna Yolei

    Anna Yolei Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Speaking as someone who served on a destroyer, the Enterprise would've felt like a soccer field compared with the narrow passageways on that ship.
     
  10. Gabriel

    Gabriel Captain Captain

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    Yeah it definitely can feel like that but that’s probably what they were going for.
    I was just reminded of that while looking at newly released cannon deck plans for the refit at www.waxingmoon.com. (Also as plans for the nx as seen on enterprise) added 7 more decks and it looks tight. Yet roomy in some places
     
  11. Spot261

    Spot261 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or it could be an adaptation for disabled/injured crew members.
     
  12. Henoch

    Henoch Commodore Premium Member

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    The Destroyer comment got me thinking. Destroyers are called "tin cans", and the ENT era, the smaller Daedalus class ships even looked like tin cans. Needing to be made en mass for the Romulan War, they wouldn't have experimental equipment like a transporter or a suite of fancy science laboratories. Their torpedo-missile systems would be topped with atomic weapons. If used in war, the NX's would be retrofitted with the same warheads. The NX's probably served as the fleet flagships because of their "roominess".
     
  13. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    By the time of the Romulan war would the transporter still be considered "experimental?" Likely Daedalus and other warships above a certain size would be equipped with a transporter as a standard.

    And I never received the impression that the NX-01 had elaborate science labs. Certainly warships intended to fight in interstellar warfare would have facilities to scan and survey space, and to separate natural phenomena from enemy activities. Sick bay would have medical labs.
    Or by the time of the Romulan war all the NX class ships in existence would be considered hopelessly obsolete. Some role would be found for them, but nothing important.
     
  14. Henoch

    Henoch Commodore Premium Member

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    I thought the Romulan War starts in 2156 about one year after ENT ended. If the series continued, then we would have seen the war like the Dominion War in DS9.
     
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  15. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think it was "claustrophobic" enough, but giving them enough room to move about and be comfortable on a voyage that was "Years" not the 3-6 months on current navy ships.
    the shelves had "Rails" on them to keep stuff in check when the deck went tits up, alot of small things that made the ship feel comfortable but cramped, I liked it!
    Now the daedalus class is smaller, but with the same crew complement, so it would be Way more cramped.
    As for the romulans, they didn't want to be captured, so they self destructed alot..
     
  16. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I thought the war was somewhere in the mid 2160's.
     
  17. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    no, the war came before the formation of the Federation.
     
  18. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Nothing solid on that yet. Heck, since we don't even know about the scope of the war, we might just as well decide that "Babel One" through "Aenar" was it! The Stileses just died offscreen, and the drones shot each other humiliatingly to pieces at a place never called onscreen by its proper name Cheron...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. XCV330

    XCV330 Premium Member

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    spaceships need more railings.

    I think the design aesthetic was a bit ahead of its time in some ways. It was clearly trying to mix what was current for industrial, naval, and to some degree space design of the time with ISS just in its early stages of development and Mir recently deactivated and shuttles flying with glass cockpit displays.

    More recent near-future shows and movies like interstellar and expanse have moved in the same direction. The bridge and interiors, apart from gravity plating, of NX-01 wouldn't look out of place in The Expanse, and that's a good testament to how well those sets have held up. Hard to forget that show is almost 2 decades old now.
     
  20. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Commodore Commodore

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    A missed opportunity I thought ENT should've addressed was the potential dangers of having a warp core in the bowels of the ship. Even Nuclear submarines had meltdowns on their fusion power sources which had catastrophic circumstances for the crew. When TOS was being designed by Matt Jefferies, he already was smart enough to realize the warp engines, intact within the propulsion units, would be too powerful to be inside the lower levels of the Enterprise. Despite the deceptive retconning done by the people involved in the Berman camp, watching TOS makes it clear the warp engines were away from the body of the Enterprise.

    Gene Roddenberry's re-imagination of the engines inside the Enterprise in TMP was flawed and the designs of the core became bigger in TNG - but never exude or follow through TMP Hazmat suits - and the solution for a breach would be to eject it. Space travel always had risks and traveling across space would be an extreme risk, and for a ship which would be supposedly pioneering, kind of, should have some limits like not having an ejection core "get out of jail free card" but handling a survival fall out from the warp core which would support why space travel evolved when Pike's vessel, the Starship Class, came to be.