The Cage, The Menagerie and Canon

[BK613]

For me, I have for the longest time counted that 24hrs as being back to when Kirk stepped on the deck. Partly because of the stardates but mostly because even in the shuttle craft, as they start to coast, he still has faith in his First Officer:

KIRK: Spock would have some logical reason for going there.​

To me, the indeterminate times are a) the chase, b) trying to regain control of the ship (although 3012.4 to 3012.6 makes it a small window) and c) trying to stop the transmissions ("You are ordered to assume command of the Enterprise. Disable vessel if necessary to prevent further contact." "Despite all we can do, images continue to be transmitted to us from Talos Four.")
I figure two days for the trial/hearings. The first day up to the Talos transmission revelation. Then the second day in closed session.

It still won't account for six days maybe but hey, at least there is room for some padding.

 

[Henoch]

This all can be explained using the 1000 stardates = 1 year = 365.25 days. Note: 1 stardate = 8.7 hours, and 0.1 stardate = 52 minutes.

Captain's log, stardate 3012.4. Despite our best efforts to disengage computers, the Enterprise is still locked on a heading for the mysterious planet Talos Four. (Length of time is not mentioned). Meanwhile (meaning that this happened before the log, for conjecture on stardate 3010.4 which is about 24 hours or 2.7 stardates before Kirk's 3013.1 log), as required by Starfleet General Orders, a preliminary hearing on Lieutenant Commander Spock is being convened (immediately after this log). And in all the years of my service, this is the most painful moment I've ever faced.
Hearing convened immediately after log.
Blah, Blah.
KIRK: This hearing is convened. Mister Spock, you're aware of your right to counsel of your choice?
SPOCK: Sir, I waive counsel. Further, I waive rights to this hearing and request immediate court-martial.
Blah, Blah.
Hearing session only a few minutes.

Captain's log, stardate 3012.6. (about 100 minutes after 3012.4 log) General Court-Martial convened. Mister Spock has again waived counsel and has entered a plea of guilty.
Court convened immediately after log.
Blah, Blah.
Session lasts about 30 minutes. Break for Part 2. (Conjecture around stardate 3012.7 at latest.)

Personal log, stardate 3013.1. (About 3.5 hours after the break.) I find it hard to believe the events of the past twenty four hours or the plea of Mister Spock standing general court-martial. (Conjecture that the decision was made for the hearing was made 24 hours ago. "Or" breaks the first topic from the plea topic; the plea occurred shortly after stardate 3012.4 or about 6 hours ago.)
Court re-convenes immediately after log.
Blah, Blah.
MENDEZ: What is it? Why have they stopped the images?
SPOCK: Because they know that Captain Pike is fatigued. We can reconvene later.
Court Session lasted about 20 minutes. Break for commercials.

Personal log, stardate 3013.2. (about 52 minutes from last log) Reconvening court-martial of Mister Spock and the strangest trial evidence ever heard aboard a starship. (Kirk is still talking about the re-convene after his previous log on 3013.1) From the mysterious planet now only one hour ahead of us, the story of Captain Pike's imprisonment there.
Court re-convenes about 30 minutes after log or about 30 minutes from planet orbit.
Blah, Blah.
MENDEZ: It seems the Talosians have deserted you.
SPOCK: Gentlemen, a moment, please.
KIRK: Well, Mister Spock?
MENDEZ: (to Pike) May I have your verdict?
SPOCK: Signal you want them to wait. Captain, please. It's your life now, at least a chance for life.
KIRK: You keep talking about life, Mister Spock. A chance for life. How? As a prisoner, caged, a zoo specimen, living the illusions that amuse his keepers?
SPOCK: No, Captain. there's more to it. Watch. (the screen remains blank)
MENDEZ: Guilty, yes or no, Captain? (flash) Yes. I must also vote guilty as charged. And you, Captain?
KIRK: Guilty as charged.
HANSEN: Bridge to Commander.
MENDEZ: Mendez here.
HANSEN [on monitor]: Sir, we're entering orbit Talos Four. (Conjecture stardate ~3013.3 or about one hour from 3013.2)
SPOCK: Talos controls the vessel now, sir, as they did thirteen years ago. You've asked me why. You'll see the answer now.
Blah, Blah.

Conclusion: The Hearing through Court Martial events were from Stardates 3012.4 to Stardates 3013.3, or 0.9 stardates or ~7.8 hours. Justice is swift! The trial events all happened in the last ~8 hours before Talos orbit. The Enterprise was nabbed ~6 days before that or ~16.4 stardates before 3013.3 which is on stardate ~2996.9). YMMV .

 

[Kor]

"The Cage" was televised in the 1980s. Therefore, it is canon.

Kor

 

[STEPhon IT]

My dad has the laserdisc of The Cage where some scenes are in color and others were in Black and white. I wonder if the televised premiere was the same?

 

[Christopher]

"The Cage" was televised in the 1980s. Therefore, it is canon.

Again, it's a total myth that being onscreen somehow "makes" something canon. "What's canon is what's onscreen" just means that in the case of Star Trek, the original work (which is what "canon" is a nickname for) is the TV series and movies, and that the books and comics are not the original work, just emulations by outside creators. It's not a statement of cause and effect, just identification. What makes something canon is its authorship.

But every authored work goes through many drafts, and if an alternate draft or edit of a released work gets a release itself, like a director's cut or workprint of a movie, that doesn't necessarily make it canonical. For instance, deleted scenes on the DVDs of Trek movies aren't canonical, even though they're onscreen. Some of them, after all, contradict what did get established onscreen in the final cuts of those movies (e.g. the different spacesuits in the unfinished TMP Kirk spacewalk sequence, or the alternate climax to Insurrection where Ru'afo was turned into a baby). Releasing them isn't about declaring them "real," just about giving audiences an opportunity to see what might have been.

 

[mb22]

My dad has the laserdisc of The Cage where some scenes are in color and others were in Black and white. I wonder if the televised premiere was the same?

No, the missing color footage (without sound)was located after the initial 1986 video and laserdisc release, and the TV broadcast was all color with the sound from the black and white footage.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Cage_(episode)#Reception_and_aftermath

 

[BK613]

Not a "myth" but the contemporary use of the word:
"In fiction, canon is the material accepted as officially part of the story in the fictional universe of that story."

 

[Christopher]

^I didn't say canon itself was a myth. I said it was a myth that appearing onscreen was what made something canonical. There are lots of non-canonical things onscreen, like deleted scenes, fan films, and video games.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

My dad has the laserdisc of The Cage where some scenes are in color and others were in Black and white. I wonder if the televised premiere was the same?

Yes, before the color negative of the missing scenes was discovered, Paramount assembled the hybrid version, with the b&w scenes coming from Gene Roddenberry's personal 16mm print of the pilot.

This weird version was shown on pay-per-view cable in 1986, before it was released on VHS and LD, and it was the first time a TV audience ever saw the missing (non-"Menagerie") scenes. My Mom and I bought the pay-per-view, and every time it went to b&w, it was like the lights being greatly dimmed. I was blown away by scenes like Spock saying "We've no choice now..." and trying to abandon Pike on the planet.

The one value of the partly b&w version today is that it shows you exactly which scenes were omitted from "The Menagerie" and how they fit in.

Edit: I found my notes, and the pay-per-view premier of the hybrid version was on Oct 18, 1986. The price was $4.50. Obviously I taped it.

 

[BK613]

^I didn't say canon itself was a myth. I said it was a myth that appearing onscreen was what made something canonical. There are lots of non-canonical things onscreen, like deleted scenes, fan films, and video games.

Sorry still not a myth. In fact it was the official position of Paramount around the turn of the century:
"As a rule of thumb, the events that take place within the live action episodes and movies are canon, or official Star Trek facts. Story lines, characters, events, stardates, etc. that take place within the fictional novels, the Animated Adventures, and the various comic lines are not canon."
Source: startrek.com, Dec 5, 2001. archive.org link
"within the live action episodes and movies." IOW, on screen.... which is what people mean by the phrase.

 

[Maurice]

I've always wondered who decided to add that illusory scene from "The Cage" to the end of Part II of the "The Menagerie." It is not in any script version I have (or have seen), all the way from the first draft to the revised final (shooting) draft.

Now you're going to make me look in the Roddenberry papers again, aren't you? @Harvey, I took the bullet for you.



Hmmm... No sign of any mention of that ending viewscreen shot in any of the extant memos on the episode. But some folders concerning this mix paperwork from both "The Cage" and "The Menagerie" and I found a few new-to-me's:

1. EDIT: Was pointed out that I'd forgotten that Pike refers to Number One as Lieutenant. Turns out Number One's rank was Lieutenant...

...which is not "canon" as not described on screen. But that was the intent in pre-production.

And shortly before filming they seem to have been futzing with the Captain's name.

2. A location scout was done to Page, Arizona in Nov. 1964, and there's a memo mentioning the idea of doing some M.O.S. (silent) filming there, (presumably for establishing shots) as the planet Talos IV beamdown site. Page is at Glen Canyon and near Lake Powell (where the ship crashed in Planet of the Apes). My guess is they were looking at the weird rock formations of Antelope Canyon for this.

3. I also found a memo where Roddenberry actually did want to discuss the mixture of racial types for the pilot casting, but this was after all the main roles had been cast. They didn't get almost any diversity in the pilot, obviously.

4. I found a memo which describes "PIKE'S GREEN GOLD SHIRT" so add that to the ongoing command tunic color arguments.

5. One memo suggests checking out the "GOOD OLD DAYS" cave set on Desilu Culver Stage 12, which no doubt means the the unsold Desilu pilot of that title starring Darryl Hickman which also got a 2nd pilot.

 

[Christopher]

1. Turns out Number One's rank was Lieutenant...
...which is not "canon" as not described on screen.

It is stated onscreen in the original cut. After Pike says he can't get used to a woman on the bridge and Number One glares at him, he says, "No offense, Lieutenant. You're different, of course." Although whether that scene counts as canonical is exactly what this thread is asking.

And shortly before filming they seem to have been futzing with the Captain's name.

The Making of Star Trek mentions in a footnote on p. 111 that his name was changed from Robert April to "Winter," and then to Pike just before filming. Apparently it was Winters instead, or both were considered.

 

[Qonundrum]

So I've heard some people don't regard The Cage as canon, whereas others do. Personally, I haven't given it much thought.

But I wondered... For those that don't consider it canon, what is the reason?

The only really significant moment I feel that would impact or affect the Menagerie, is the removal of the illusionary Pike moment at the end of the pilot. Without this, it is unknown if Vina did have a fake Pike or not.

Beyond a few lines of dialogue that are cut, I don't really see anything that is cut from the Cage that would in any way contradict or affect the continuity of The Menagerie.

Indeed, one line I thought should have been left in was when the Keeper says the Talosian life span is 'many times yours' as it would have cemented the believability that the Keeper hasn't aged in thirteen years.

Thoughts?

Technically, "The Cage" was shown to the suits before they greenlit the actual series. They disliked it, but due to the cost of making it they opted to do a second pilot in hopes it would be accepted. If unused pilots used during the initial formation of a series are ditched, they might be re-used in later actual episodes of the same series.

"The Menagerie" was made to cut costs, using select clips of the scraped pilot to repurpose and re-tell the story. Casual viewers probably thought this was a big thing at the time when it was just serendipity.

Compromise: "The Menagerie"'s use of "The Cage"'s select clips are what count the most. I recall Spock being a little shouty too, but not the silly grinning over the terrified plants shaking all about in fear he was going to shout, why not make the plants psychic with ESPer ability as well? Like Troi except they're all a bunch of potted plants that can't communicate back what's obvious to the people walking toward them. But he was shouty at times in early TOS/s1 as they were still figuring out their roles (typical for almost any series). So, can the whole of "The Cage" still be used alongside "Menagerie"? Arguably. But I too prefer "Menagerie"'s denouement and letting rebuilt-Vina have a fake-Pike to give her at least a nominal modicum of happiness.

 

[Qonundrum]

Now you're going to make me look in the Roddenberry papers again, aren't you? @Harvey, I took the bullet for you.



Hmmm... No sign of any mention of that ending viewscreen shot in any of the extant memos on the episode. But some folders concerning this mix paperwork from both "The Cage" and "The Menagerie" and I found a few new-to-me's:

1. Turns out Number One's rank was Lieutenant...
View attachment 20185
...which is not "canon" as not described on screen. But that was the intent in pre-production.

And shortly before filming they seem to have been futzing with the Captain's name.

2. A location scout was done to Page, Arizona in Nov. 1964, and there's a memo mentioning the idea of doing some M.O.S. (silent) filming there, (presumably for establishing shots) as the planet Talos IV beamdown site. Page is at Glen Canyon and near Lake Powell (where the ship crashed in Planet of the Apes). My guess is they were looking at the weird rock formations of Antelope Canyon for this.

3. I also found a memo where Roddenberry actually did want to discuss the mixture of racial types for the pilot casting, but this was after all the main roles had been cast. They didn't get almost any diversity in the pilot, obviously.

4. I found a memo which describes "PIKE'S GREEN GOLD SHIRT" so add that to the ongoing command tunic color arguments.

5. One memo suggests checking out the "GOOD OLD DAYS" cave set on Desilu Culver Stage 12, which no doubt means the the unsold Desilu pilot of that title starring Darryl Hickman which also got a 2nd pilot.

Awesome finds, thank you!!

 

[Christopher]

Technically, "The Cage" was shown to the suits before they greenlit the actual series. They disliked it, but due to the cost of making it they opted to do a second pilot in hopes it would be accepted.

It's not so much that they didn't like it as that it was the wrong kind of story to work as a pilot. As Desilu exec Oscar Katz explained it:

https://www.facttrek.com/blog/oscarkatz

Nobody blamed Gene, neither NBC or Desilu... What NBC said—I believe it was a conversation between myself and the Vice President of Programs at NBC in Hollywood, a fellow named Grant Tinker, Mary Tyler Moore’s husband—he said, “You delivered everything you promised us, but we can’t schedule it and we can’t sell it because we don’t think we can sell this show from this episode to advertisers.” And I said, “why not?” And he said, “It’s the wrong story. We see this as not typical of the series. We see it as the kind of show that you would schedule once every thirteen weeks to give the series a hypo or a shot in the arm. And we feel that if we go to market with this, go to advertisers, we have to have a pilot that’s more typical.” And I said, “Hey, fellas, you picked the story. Now you’re telling us that we delivered a perfect pilot and you can’t go to market with it because the story is wrong, and you’ve cost the studio $360,000. This is surely cavalier.” And Grant, who is quite a gentleman and a very honorable guy, said, “It’s our fault. We take the full blame. And we’d like to order another pilot for next season.”

If unused pilots used during the initial formation of a series are ditched, they might be re-used in later actual episodes of the same series.

Yup. A notable example is the Gilligan's Island pilot, which had a few parts of it used in the series premiere and other portions recycled into a Christmas-themed flashback episode later in the season, not unlike "The Menagerie."

the terrified plants shaking all about in fear

I think they were just shaking in the breeze. It was the vibration that generated the chiming sound, since the chiming stopped when the crew grabbed the leaves. If you're afraid, you generally try to stay quiet, not make more noise.

 

[yotsuya]

I'm not sure why The Cage would not be considered canon. I had this conversion once and the other person seemed to think very little of The Cage was in The Menagerie. The Cage is 64 minutes. 50 minutes of it are included in The Menagerie. What is cut are mostly side scenes and the ending (such as Spock trying to leave, but not being able to). The core of the story is all there. And you can't go by the B&W and Color edit because may of those B&W scenes are still in there, just on the view screen.

So storywise the only parts that differ are the Keeper's voice and the Ending. And the only real difference in the ending is that in The Cage Vina gets an illusion and in The Menagerie Vina finally gets reality (as in Pike is really there, though they are both illusion due to their injuries).

 

[alchemist]

Now you're going to make me look in the Roddenberry papers again, aren't you? @Harvey, I took the bullet for you.

"But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt."

2. A location scout was done to Page, Arizona in Nov. 1964, and there's a memo mentioning the idea of doing some M.O.S. (silent) filming there, (presumably for establishing shots) as the planet Talos IV beamdown site. Page is at Glen Canyon and near Lake Powell (where the ship crashed in Planet of the Apes). My guess is they were looking at the weird rock formations of Antelope Canyon for this.

The major rock formation in the composited image of Talos IV (the terrain) that Spock shows on the briefing room screen also appears in the 1968 "Planet of the Apes" movie, albeit it's flopped in the pilot.

 

[mb22]

Yes, before the color negative of the missing scenes was discovered, Paramount assembled the hybrid version, with the b&w scenes coming from Gene Roddenberry's personal 16mm print of the pilot.

This weird version was shown on pay-per-view cable in 1986, before it was released on VHS and LD, and it was the first time a TV audience ever saw the missing (non-"Menagerie") scenes. My Mom and I bought the pay-per-view, and every time it went to b&w, it was like the lights being greatly dimmed. I was blown away by scenes like Spock saying "We've no choice now..." and trying to abandon Pike on the planet.

The one value of the partly b&w version today is that it shows you exactly which scenes were omitted from "The Menagerie" and how they fit in.

Edit: I found my notes, and the pay-per-view premier of the hybrid version was on Oct 18, 1986. The price was $4.50. Obviously I taped it.

The hybrid version was also shown in the summer of 1986 at the Museum of Broadcasting (now the Paley Center for Media) in New York City a few months before the October home video release. I remember attending one showing and waiting for each B & W sequence to begin.
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/07/22/arts/a-first-showing-for-star-trek-pilot.html

 

[Maurice]

It is stated onscreen in the original cut. After Pike says he can't get used to a woman on the bridge and Number One glares at him, he says, "No offense, Lieutenant. You're different, of course." Although whether that scene counts as canonical is exactly what this thread is asking.




The Making of Star Trek mentions in a footnote on p. 111 that his name was changed from Robert April to "Winter," and then to Pike just before filming. Apparently it was Winters instead, or both were considered.

Had forgotten that line to Number One re her rank, being it's in the middle of the whole "woman on the bridge" shit (which, incidentally, isn't there in the earliest versions).

And yes, it was JUST before filming. Looking at the paperwork, like days before the commencement of principal photography.

@alchemist just showed us a slate for a scene in Pike's cabin that indicates "NITE".

 

[MAGolding]

The hybrid version was also shown in the summer of 1986 at the Museum of Broadcasting (now the Paley Center for Media) in New York City a few months before the October home video release. I remember attending one showing and waiting for each B & W sequence to begin.
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/07/22/arts/a-first-showing-for-star-trek-pilot.html

I also saw one of those showings.