The Borg

[CoveTom]

I maintain that the Borg were only really good as a species once, in "Q Who?" Even Best of Both Worlds, as good of an episode as it is, already started deballing the Borg. Once Maurice Hurley, who came up with the idea, left, the writers could never figure out how to work with a hive mind and instead had to keep coming up with ways to make the Borg a more traditional bad guy. (I go back here to my theory that Michael Piller was overrated as a writer and showrunner.)

 

[Zolkar]

I maintain that the Borg were only really good as a species once, in "Q Who?" Even Best of Both Worlds, as good of an episode as it is, already started deballing the Borg. Once Maurice Hurley, who came up with the idea, left, the writers could never figure out how to work with a hive mind and instead had to keep coming up with ways to make the Borg a more traditional bad guy. (I go back here to my theory that Michael Piller was overrated as a writer and showrunner.)

Yeah I feel like the mystery and ambiguity of the Borg early on is what made them seem like such aesthetically appealing villains.

 

[DonIago]

While I think Hugh and later Seven of Nine were fantastic additions to the franchise, I do think something was lost when the Borg started to feel less like a force of nature, though I think BoBW is fine in its own right. I largely blame FC for introducing the queen and VOY for its overreliance on and hence underpowering of them.

The PROD Borg episode was also a lowpoint, as the Borg are innately not a kid-friendly concept, so having Our Lovable Band of Misfits defeat them was especially unlikely without defanging them.

 

[ananta]

The Borg peaked extremely early.

They were never as terrifying and fascinating as their debut appearance (as a kid they actually gave me nightmares). BOBW was brilliant, of course, a height TNG arguably never quite scaled again, but even all those years ago I felt the way they were defeated defanged them significantly (“sleep, Data, sleep”, like putting your laptop into standby mode).

I, Borg worked as a Trekkian morality tale but Hugh was just way too cute in terms of writing and performance. Descent started promisingly but ended with one of the worst and most pitiful episodes of the entire series.

FC did some things really well; they were scary again, but they were also kind of generic space zombies and I loathed the concept and execution of the hypersexual Queen (“was it good for you, Data?”). And Voyager just turned them into increasingly dull villains of the week. Just a shadow of what once they were.

Nope, Q Who remains their best and most effective appearance. Diminishing returns from thereon in.

 

[Tim Walker]

The Borg peaked extremely early.

They were never as terrifying and fascinating as their debut appearance.

Nope, Q Who remains their best and most effective appearance. Diminishing returns from thereon in.

Yes. I would have limited the Borg to the Neutral Zone and Q Who.

Q Who displayed the Borg as a terrifying, unstoppable force of nature. An opponent that was far above the Federation's league.

I would have ended the Borgs only appearance as a warning-that it isn't safe out there. There are forces you have no chance against.

 

[Bajorassian]

So I have some problems with the concept of The Borg.

First and foremost - who the fuck flies around in a giant rubix cube? Does each cube come from a bigger cube, like tiny cubes pooping out of a greater, larger cube?

Why shouldnt they fly around in cubes? Areodynamics are irrelevant in space travel. And why shoud they "poop" out of other cubes? i dont get the question. In fact, if we accept the theoretical concept of warp drive, all space vessels would probably look like this or similar because its most "space per surface"... a pretty klingon "Bird of prey" is just pleasant for the eye but its wings have no purpose (maybe if entering an atmosphere)

Second, why are those being assimilated only humanoids? Are you telling me that the Borg are sophisticated enough to develop large interstellar cubes but they can't assimilate anything other that is generally ape-like? Why not giant spiders or sharks with lasers on their heads?

Well, hence most humanoid races have similarities, its likely that a cyborg culture and its Nanotechnology only works for them. And they tried, It did not work for species 8472 e g.

Third, Borg seem to make babies in microwaves. If you can microwave your own babies, why do you need to assimilate other cultures at all?

Because these Babies are not grown with "distinctive features and knowledge" to add to the collective. Many actual species on earth have several ways to reproduce, sexually and asexually,whatever the situation demands,

Fourth, Picard was what Locutus of Borg or something like that? And people just forget that he was captured by a deadly enemy and was their leader and then he becomes an admiral or something and no one questions it?

Well, it was questioned and Picard faced a lot of reservation by those who suffered under the Borg, Sisko e.g.

Finally, Picard had the chance to destroy the Borg forever by implanting a virus into their netscape or hive mind or whatever and chose not to do so because ... life? Bad call bro.

Wasnt that janeway? Yes that was a deliberate point of philosophical discussion where the writers intended that probably most viewers held the view, that it was legitimate to implementt the virus in self defense. Maybe it should highlight Starfleets high ethics... later the Federation was less focused on their principles and more on survival, see the virus Section 31 introduced into the founders

 

[flyerdog]

Finally: Picard couldn't because of his conscience, as he saw that Hugh could develop in an individual and he thought that could be the best virus of all. Apparently, he miscalculated, and admiral Nechayev told him he should have acted differently in no uncertain terms (whether you agree with that or not).

I Borg had an "oops" moment that stole the thunder of the scene with Picard...remember it?

When they first wake up Hugh and Riker (i think?) keeps referring to him as "Geordi"..Hugh asks about it and Geordi says "That's my name"....then Hugh responds "Do 'I' have a name?"

that kind of steals the Thunder of the later scene when Hugh says " I do not want to", where Picard is blind sided by the use of "I".... (the line should have been "Do WE have a name?" in the first scene)

in Scorpion before de-Assimilation I think Seven also used 'I' a few times as well....

 

[Tim Walker]

Lore Reloaded video. Concept-Romulans became aware of Borg incursions decades before the Federation.

Romulans trying to reverse engineer Borg technology

 

[Tim Walker]

I have seen mention of conflict with the "Chodak," an ancient space faring race on the far side (relative to the Federation) of Romulan space.

Which might explain why the Romulans in The Neutral Zone (TNG) were puzzled by destruction along the zone, after being absent for half a century. The Romulans had been distracted by the Chodak, and then finally the Borg came.

 

[Crumpets]

Finally, Picard had the chance to destroy the Borg forever by implanting a virus into their netscape or hive mind or whatever and chose not to do so because ... life? Bad call bro

One of my biggest problems with Star Trek, the moral judgements. Committing genocide against an aggressing species, or saving many other species. These decisions should go to command. I would like these questions explored deeper.

 

[Farscape One]

One of my biggest problems with Star Trek, the moral judgements. Committing genocide against an aggressing species, or saving many other species. These decisions should go to command. I would like these questions explored deeper.

It was a bad call by Picard.

 

[Bajorassian]

One of my biggest problems with Star Trek, the moral judgements. Committing genocide against an aggressing species, or saving many other species. These decisions should go to command. I would like these questions explored deeper.

I remember well Arturis who wanted to take revenge on Voyager hence they allowed the Borg to concentrate to assimilate his species after the 8472 threat was banned with Voyagers help... somehow he had a point

Totally arbitrary moral codex.... the "new" human pirate culture on the astrovore was aswell exterminated without great discussion... and then they (officially) refuse to use a "morphogenic" virus against the founders who wanna enslave the whole alpha quadrant while being almost annihilated.... and then 10 years later they let the now befriended Romulans being extinguished without a lot of help offered.... this is all not so well thought, i concur

 

[matthunter]

I have seen mention of conflict with the "Chodak," an ancient space faring race on the far side (relative to the Federation) of Romulan space.

Which might explain why the Romulans in The Neutral Zone (TNG) were puzzled by destruction along the zone, after being absent for half a century. The Romulans had been distracted by the Chodak, and then finally the Borg came.

The Chodak are seen in the PC game A Final Unity, though they were referenced in the Trek RPG materials put out by Last Unicorn Games.

Think Humpty-Dumpty with repulsor chairs and wands that act as combined weapons/multitools.

 

[Tim Walker]

We saw the Romulans take an interest in a Borg cube (PIC). If I understand correctly, Borg had assimilated very sophisticated technologies from multiple species. So, I suspect that, from the Borg perspective, 24th century Federation and Romulan Star Empire were low tech. They had no technological distinctiveness that would impress or interest the Borg.

Compare the Romulans to the Roman Empire. Imagine an M1 Abrams being sent back in time to Ancient Rome. Could the Romans reverse engineer/duplicate the tank?

The gap in technology would be very wide. Ultimately, the Romans best efforts might lead to an oxen pulled cart. The cart might carry a ballistae. Covered with a shield turtle, with slits for archers.

The Borg are so far ahead that intense study would lead to something useful in only the most modest and general way.

 

[Tim Walker]

Think Humpty-Dumpty with repulsor chairs and wands that act as combined weapons/multitools.

Star Fleet may want to reverse engineer some of the Humpty Dumpty stuff, if they can get their hands on it.

 

[AntonyF]

While I think Hugh and later Seven of Nine were fantastic additions to the franchise, I do think something was lost when the Borg started to feel less like a force of nature, though I think BoBW is fine in its own right. I largely blame FC for introducing the queen and VOY for its overreliance on and hence underpowering of them.

I'm a bit late to respond but entirely agree. There was some great Borg episodes, Scorpion too.

But nothing means the menace of that lone cube... pursuing them, they're unable to escape. Relentless, emotionless...

The single line "The Lalo reported contact with an alien vessel described as "cube-shaped" is chilling and more effective than a ton of CGI shots.

As is often the case, less is more.

 

[Ragitsu]

The Borg were another casualty of "They couldn't help themselves."

 

[DonIago]

I just remember at the end of "The Gift" thinking, "Well, that was a decent Borg appearance, and I guess a reasonable way to move past them..."

And then they showed up again.
And again.
And again.

Granted one can say Kes just moved Voyager past the heart of Borg space, but the number of times Our Heroes continued to encounter them in some ways felt like it rendered her gift moot.

 

[CoveTom]

I just remember at the end of "The Gift" thinking, "Well, that was a decent Borg appearance, and I guess a reasonable way to move past them..."

And then they showed up again.
And again.
And again.

Granted one can say Kes just moved Voyager past the heart of Borg space, but the number of times Our Heroes continued to encounter them in some ways felt like it rendered her gift moot.

The bottom line of all that to me is the utter absurdity of it. At that point we had seen the Federation not once, but twice, nearly defeated by a single Borg cube. That a single ship that is essentially a science vessel could survive numerous engagements with multiple cubes at a go and handle them as if they were fighting some old Klingon ships is just ludicrous. The term "lazy writing" gets bandied about way too much, but this truly was a case of lazy writing.