I think the Borg in First Contact are the best they could ever be, in an appealing to audiences kind of way. I would like to see them without a queen, and maybe an entire movie showing an alternate universe where the federation gets assimilated, but I'm not sure it would appeal to audiences.
The BORG, and the Lost potential
- Thread starter STEPhon IT
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If we're talking about new shows showing the Borg -- 24th century ? Well , I think Voyager somehow destroyed them in their final episode , didn't they?
I'd like to see the rogue Borg idea, as shown in TNG episode Destiny, and Voyager episodes Unity and Unimatrix Zero expanded on. You have the Cooperative from Unity and the rogue Borg cube captained by the Klingon Borg, plus Hugh's group, and they could all band together to fight the Queen and persuade more Borg to join them in a voluntary Collective where they could both be individuals, yet participate in a group link. I think it would be more satisfying for the Queen to be defeated from within and instead of destroying the Borg, they'd be transformed into a different kind of Borg that doesn't do involuntary assimilations. Perhaps, at some point, the New Borg would join the Federation. I think it would be also interesting for a growing number of rogue Borg to exist alongside the regular Borg, who would continue to exist.
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Interesting, but I'm afraid I just got all Borg-ed out , just hearing about all that . . . I think a new, equally startling idea (equal to the original idea of the Borg) would have to be introduced, to justify bringing them back at all.
At first the Borg was a powerful, faceless enemy that you couldn't negotiate with. They came, stated their demands and if you didn't do what they wanted, you were screwed. (and even if you did, screwed)
Then the Queen ruined the whole thing... we're like bees, BUZZ!
Then the Queen ruined the whole thing... we're like bees, BUZZ!
Well, if they're like bees, then the drones should all be infertile females and called "workers". Bee drones are very few in a bee hive. They are all male and their only purpose is to fertilize the queen . So, the similarity to bees only goes so far.
I don't know much about bees, it's just the thought that comes to mind when talking about a queen and her mindless slaves.
How different would it be if the comparisons to Ants or different species of Ants to the Borg?
Going back to basics give the Borg new life by having an identity where they were more dangerous on TNG than what they became in FC, and later on Voyager. The Borg were quite interesting without the ridiculous Queen concept.
Going back to basics give the Borg new life by having an identity where they were more dangerous on TNG than what they became in FC, and later on Voyager. The Borg were quite interesting without the ridiculous Queen concept.
I suppose the Queen idea was to answer the question of what gave the Borg direction and where the ideas came from in the first place that gave them goals and purpose, rather than it all coming seemingly out of nowhere randomly.
But I agree that the Queen can be rather annoying. And I've always had the feeling that several queens exist all at once in different parts of the galaxy and that she's merely the mouthpiece for the Borg and that something above her, that we've not seen yet, is really what's driving the Borg.
I wouldn't say destroyed. I would say stopped for the time being. That wasn't the first time the Borg Queen died. At the very least, I think the Borg Queen's body was killed but her mind was possibly uploaded, and the Transwarp conduit was destroyed, but the Borg civilization continued on, without much of a hickup. Just inconvenienced because that transwarp hub, 1 of 6, was destroyed and this delays any possible attacks on Earth in the near future. I think at worst, the Queen was killed permanently, and the Borg civilization was thrown into chaos. Maybe comparable to what Hugh the Borg did to his collective when he was re-assimilated, but on a far grander scale.
But I don't think the Borg were destroyed outright.
The way I see it, Voyager Endgame pretty much was the movie after FC. Kind of hard to create another Borg movie, after Endgame that doesn't rehash what had already been done before. However, given how Endgame concluded,
I think the only logical way, if you were to do a Borg movie, or at least a follow up to Endgame would be to depict the Borg civilization in shambles and chaos. Maybe a leader among them offers them order, much like Lore did for Hugh's collective. Maybe this leader rallies the Borg, and promises revenge on the Federation. But any invasion would have to wait until the Transwarp conduit that leads to Earth was repaired. And who knows what the Feds have done with that technology Voyager brought back from 30+ years into the future. The Borg are liable to find themselves in the Alpha Quadrant surrounded by a federation fleet equipped with transphasic quantum torpedoes that pulverizes the Borg armada into dust.
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I think a new Botg movie would cover Korok and the freed drones from Unimatrix 0 and what they did after parting ways with Voyager, perhaps joining forces with the planet Borg from Unity, and maybe even also Hugh's Borg, with them engaging in a civil war with the collective and whatever new Queen is raised. Perhaps the independent Borg even become Federation allies.
The Borg are great but they are really more intense, in my opinion, when used in an ominous seldom encountered fashion. That scene in QWho when they first show up is just perfect. But part of their terrifying factor comes from how bland they are. Sorry to make an analogy to Star Wars, but it is the Storm Trooper factor. Human individuality versus an enemy that appears to be all one unified undifferentiated thing. The terror is that we are frieghtened of a "force of nature" block of things in contrast to our variety and individualism. Pretty much everything else you learn about the Borg diminishes that because then they become particular. I thought that's why BoBW was so brilliant, they found a way to increase rather than decrease it by taking somebody's individuality. They got the lack of individuality but still gave a central "adversary" to communicate with. But then, after that, it just became too individual. You start picturing the drones as Hugh or Seven, they have dreamland rebellions and a Queen who is plotting. They become just like the other species but with only one strategy "assimilate!" rather than many. Makes you miss Romulan guile!
That being said, I like First Contact enough for other reasons :-)
That being said, I like First Contact enough for other reasons :-)
and people have gotten tired of them and some of their apperances have been seen as rather lack lustre.
Not sure if it's still the case but believe at one point there was a contractual obligation for the Daleks to appear on a fairly regular basis (so the money keeps rolling in for the estate of Terry Nation).
We never had a chance to see the evolution of the "Hugh resurgence Borg" where they were like Spartans; having deep compassion for its comrade and would seek cold hearted revenge for them. They moved incredibly faster and were more precise on targeting their enemies, I wonder what could've been if the Berman band did a movie about those Spartan-Borg than the boring Alien Queen rip-off?
The Borg weren't really great. Costumers, Makeup Artists, Directors of episodes and Patrick Stewart managed to squirt much more juice from them than what the producers invented. Which amounted to not much more that "oooh they are invincible and we barely escaped with our lives and what will we do next time?"
The hinting of the Borg in The Neutral Zone should had been followed up. Since it wasn't, what destroyed those outposts, Fed and Romulan both? could not be the Borg anymore from what was seen after.
In Q Who, Q, being Q, seemed to fling the Enterprise TOO far away for any contact afterwards. But they came with a cube, then another (in FC) in barely no time. They invented the transwarp conduits for Descent and VOY, but that was another corner they painted themselves to: if the Borg have those superspeed capabilty, why didn't they fucking use it and come with 1000 cubes?
Guinan in her usual useless self, propheted something about her misterious people and the Borg and ... what relevance did that have again?
The invention of the Borg Queen was absurd. She is as unborg as a concept can be. The Borg should be something like Skynet. No face.
As much as BOBW was good, the same reason Locutus was not a good idea either. It would have been more borg-y still having Picard assimilated for his unique tactical knowledge but make him as a regular drone. He could say instead of "I am Locutus" just "We are the Borg" and all would be well.
But you can't write really great stories what basically "a force of nature". It would be like our heroes as sailors fighting a storm. Either they die at the end or they survive. How many episodes can be written like that?
The hinting of the Borg in The Neutral Zone should had been followed up. Since it wasn't, what destroyed those outposts, Fed and Romulan both? could not be the Borg anymore from what was seen after.
In Q Who, Q, being Q, seemed to fling the Enterprise TOO far away for any contact afterwards. But they came with a cube, then another (in FC) in barely no time. They invented the transwarp conduits for Descent and VOY, but that was another corner they painted themselves to: if the Borg have those superspeed capabilty, why didn't they fucking use it and come with 1000 cubes?
Guinan in her usual useless self, propheted something about her misterious people and the Borg and ... what relevance did that have again?
The invention of the Borg Queen was absurd. She is as unborg as a concept can be. The Borg should be something like Skynet. No face.
As much as BOBW was good, the same reason Locutus was not a good idea either. It would have been more borg-y still having Picard assimilated for his unique tactical knowledge but make him as a regular drone. He could say instead of "I am Locutus" just "We are the Borg" and all would be well.
But you can't write really great stories what basically "a force of nature". It would be like our heroes as sailors fighting a storm. Either they die at the end or they survive. How many episodes can be written like that?
I did like what they did with Locutus. The idea that he could be construed as a collaborator by people traumatised by Wolf 359 and that Picard himself is troubled by his hand in that defeat. I wished they did more of Picard encountering distressed relatives of that battle.
They did the borg to death, high on the popularity of TBOBW and we see in every second borg episode they can be turned off with a switch our heroes manage to find . And the hideous zombie aspect is defanged as well given that assimilation is quite reversible by the time Voyager comes around.
They did the borg to death, high on the popularity of TBOBW and we see in every second borg episode they can be turned off with a switch our heroes manage to find . And the hideous zombie aspect is defanged as well given that assimilation is quite reversible by the time Voyager comes around.
I have always imagined a scene with Picard and Seven of Nine; of what they might have to say to one another. I'm especially interested in how he would react to her, whether he'd be entirely rational or whether her presence would set off flashbacks in him, or what.
Somehow I think Picard would now like Seven very much. He would avoid working with her and probably would be biased against any of her advice or input.
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