The Battle of Wolf 359!?

[James Wright]

I remember it being said in TNG episose "The Best of Both Worlds" that the Klingons were sending ships to fight the Borg at Wolf 359, does anybody know if there was any mention of the Klingon ships lost at Wolf 359, if they arrived in time?

JDW

 

[Dayton3]

I doubt they arrived in time.

At the time this was stated by Admiral Hanson, he also stated that Starfleet has assembled 40 starships at Wolf-359.

Later in the season we learn that 39 ships were destroyed.

It appears likely from the indications that the 40 Federation ships are all that managed to arrive in time.

Some have suggested that the Klingon ships arrived before the Enterprise, rescued the Starfleet survivors, then were simply out run by the Borg Cube (or destroyed in a running battle en route).

Another thing worth noting is that the Borg ship after Wolf-359 MUST have been slowed considerably by battle damage in order for the Enterprise to overtake it despite being immobile for a few hours.

 

[Cronos6939]

Admiral Hanson: " We've mobilized a fleet of forty starships at Wolf 359 and that's just for starters...the Klingons are sending warships... Hell, we've even thought about opening communications with the Romulans..."

That is the full extent of what is known about Klingon (and Romulan) forces at Wolf 359. How many ships were sent is never mentioned.

However, when I did this fanboyish desktop a few years back, I did throw in a few Klingon birds-of-prey.

 

[Unicron]

Wow, you did that pic? I have it in my wallpaper collection.

 

[HRHTheKING]

That would made a good scene in FC.

For the entire Alpha Quadrant to face the Borg in a final battle.

 

[James Wright]

If Starfleet mobilized a fleet of 40 starships at Wolf 359 and 39 were destroyed, what happened to the 40th, as I remember there wasn't any mention of a starship surviving the battle?

JDW

 

[flandry84]

U.S.S Endeavour,commanded by Capt.Amasov.

 

[jimbo1973]

It seems I read somwhere that one of the ships there was called the USS Chechov. Don't know if it's cannon, prob not, but still prety cool!

 

[hellsgate]

Trek is famous for fluxuating numbers. Dominion War losses, etc. I've never been able to get a canon number for either of these (Wolf 359 or The Dominion War.)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

jimbo1973 said:
It seems I read somwhere that one of the ships there was called the USS Chechov. Don't know if it's cannon, prob not, but still prety cool!

The name USS Chekov was written on one of the kitbashed hulls used in that episode. So it's canon.

 

[Praetor]

Personally, I've never liked the assumption that all 39 ships destroyed were Starfeet ships. It seems rather stupid that there would only be one ship that would survive, so I much prefer the idea that other ships (Klingon ships) arrived in addition to the 40 ships assembled by Starfleet, and then there was more than one survivor ship that escaped with surviving personnel. It may not be strongly supported by evidence, but I think it's more interesting.

 

[Unicron]

Yeah, the Chehkov was the Springfield class model built. As for the Endeavor, it's never been established that she was the lone survivor, or that she even participated in the battle. This view appears as speculation in the last Encyclopedia, based on the ship being referenced in "Scorpion," but there's nothing to indicate the log was in relation to W359. It might have been simply the captain's view on the Borg race.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I always assumed the Endeavour survived Wolf 359 because of Captain Amasov making a log about the Borg. At the time, Picard was the only other captain to engage the Borg and live to tell about it, so if Amasov knew so much, he must have faced them at some point as well. And the only major engagement at that point in the timeline was Wolf 359.

 

[Timo]

We have no factual basis for thinking that Picard would be the only captain with experience on the Borg, though. It could just as well be that Amasov was the real expert and a veteran of half a dozen bloody encounters, while Picard was but a dilettante, ranking seventh on Starfleet's "Most encounters with the Borg" list.

Nor do we have much reason to think that 40 ships is all Starfleet got at Wolf 359. Admiral Hanson had those ships available when he made the second-to-last call to the Enterprise, well in advance of the actual battle. Yet it seems that Sisko's Saratoga arrived on the scene only minutes before the engagement, still full of civilians and children. It wouldn't surprise me if Hanson remained healthily afraid beneath his confident facade, and kept summoning additional ships to the last minute; total Starfleet casualties could have been 39 ships out of 52 or so.

(And those were Starfleet casualties specifically: Admiral Satie in "The Drumhead" says so.

Satie: "Just how many of our ships were destroyed...?
...ah, I have it... 39, with with the loss of life measured at nearly 11,000."

It doesn't seem likely that Satie would count Klingon or Romulan ships as "ours", while in the same breath persecuting Klingon and Romulan elements within Starfleet.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Unicron]

Timo said:
We have no factual basis for thinking that Picard would be the only captain with experience on the Borg, though. It could just as well be that Amasov was the real expert and a veteran of half a dozen bloody encounters, while Picard was but a dilettante, ranking seventh on Starfleet's "Most encounters with the Borg" list.

Agreed. To be fair, the possibility that the Endeavor survived isn't a bad one. It just isn't directly supported, and the Encyclopedia authors clearly just drew this assumption out of the blue based on "Scorpion". I tend to consider that a bit of laziness on their parts. All that's actually said in Amasov's log is that he considers the Borg to be the closest thing to pure evil that the Feds have encountered. There's no way to distinguish whether this refers to a specific encounter, or simply a personal opinion.

 

[Timo]

FWIW, there is one tidbit we "know", albeit only through backstage material: Endeavor is one of the big Nebula class battlewagons. Perhaps a prime candidate to survive Wolf 359 - but also a prime candidate for charges of cowardice, as opposed to a scenario where the escaping ship is a vulnerable little Miranda or Oberth. Somehow, I rather favor a scenario where the one or two ships that escaped were dedicated evacuation vessels, staying out of the fight due to their lack of size and armament.

It might help if we knew when Amasov dictated that log. There is no direct data in the log itself, but it would be a tad premature to write something like that before "BoBW", which by all appearances was indeed only the second open Starfleet/Borg battle. Then again, a great number of battles apparently took place between "BoBW" and ST:FC, as indicated by Picard's claim that the Borg advance and the Federation falls back; Amasov could have taken part in those, as apparently Picard did not.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Assuming the Endeavour *did* survive Wolf 359, it would be an interesting idea. Survivor's guilt, and all that.

 

[FordSVT]

If the Admiral's last name was spelled Hansen we could have had an interesting fan tie-in with Seven of Nine's parents.

I've always thought Starfleet knew a hell of a lot more about the Borg than was let on before Q Who. Picard and the crew of the Enterprise were in the dark about the Borg, maybe Q just wanted to give Picard a heads up so that he'd be able to deal with them in the future. Doesn't mean a bunch of high level Starfleet brass didn't know about them for years before.

 

[serdogthehound]

^ That why I found that Ent fix the timline in relation to the brog and the Hansen

 

[James Wright]

Is Wolf 359 located in Federation space ou outside the Federation?

JDW