"The Alternative Factor"

[Nerys Myk]

Just tonight at work, some guys were raving about The Expanse, and their whole thesis was how amazingly thought-out it was, and how the show stuck to hard science with no inventions we couldn't figure out today. I've never seen it, but apparently a show can be done that way and be really good.

Then there's the protomolecule and the Ring

 

[Henoch]

Of course, we only have Alt-Lazarus' word for much of this; he may well be a lying sociopath for all we know.

His actions show he spoke the truth, after all, he did sacrify himself to save both universes.

 

[publiusr]

A good follow on world be his dinky little saucer having tapped into something forgotten below ground. A regular matter anti-matter explosion of a human an anti-human would not be universe threatening. Perhaps something else was in effect here.

 

[Mytran]

His actions show he spoke the truth, after all, he did sacrify himself to save both universes.

I will agree that the actions of alt-Laz are certainly consistent with what he said, but as I mentioned upthread we are only given extremely limited answers to the myriad of questions raised. However, I'm happy to give alt-Laz the benefit of the doubt - his scene with Kirk was a breath of fresh air after enduring crazy-Laz all episode!

 

[Ssosmcin]

This episode gets such a bad rap. Maybe it's deserved, but I enjoy watching it. I can follow it, the story is interesting, if rushed, and I get a laugh out of how man times Lazerus falls off cliffs, screaming as if plummeting into a pool of lava.

But it's not dull! Mark of Gideon, Charlie X, Whom Gods Destroy and Patterns of Force (not to mention I, Mudd and A Piece of the Action) are all episodes I'd avoid pulling off the shelf. I would watch The Alternative Factor 18 times more than any of those.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

This episode gets such a bad rap. Maybe it's deserved, but I enjoy watching it. I can follow it, the story is interesting, if rushed, and I get a laugh out of how man times Lazerus falls off cliffs, screaming as if plummeting into a pool of lava.

But it's not dull! Mark of Gideon, Charlie X, Whom Gods Destroy and Patterns of Force (not to mention I, Mudd and A Piece of the Action) are all episodes I'd avoid pulling off the shelf. I would watch The Alternative Factor 18 times more than any of those.

I too have never had a problem with it. I'd certainly favour over a few others.

 

[Push The Button]

This episode gets such a bad rap. Maybe it's deserved, but I enjoy watching it. I can follow it, the story is interesting, if rushed, and I get a laugh out of how man times Lazerus falls off cliffs, screaming as if plummeting into a pool of lava.

But it's not dull! Mark of Gideon, Charlie X, Whom Gods Destroy and Patterns of Force (not to mention I, Mudd and A Piece of the Action) are all episodes I'd avoid pulling off the shelf. I would watch The Alternative Factor 18 times more than any of those.

Same here, I’d choose The Alternative Factor over Charlie X, I, Mudd, The Mark of Gideon and many others. Maybe I’m just spoiled by living in 2022 and being able to pull up any episode that I want at any time, as fifty years ago I would watch any TOS that happened to be on the screen, regardless of the episode.

 

[Mytran]

This episode gets such a bad rap. Maybe it's deserved, but I enjoy watching it. I can follow it, the story is interesting, if rushed, and I get a laugh out of how man times Lazerus falls off cliffs, screaming as if plummeting into a pool of lava.

But it's not dull! Mark of Gideon, Charlie X, Whom Gods Destroy and Patterns of Force (not to mention I, Mudd and A Piece of the Action) are all episodes I'd avoid pulling off the shelf. I would watch The Alternative Factor 18 times more than any of those.

I also have a sneaking fondness for TAT. It's super high concept, even if a little wobbly in execution

 

[BK613]

I also have a sneaking fondness for TAT. It's super high concept, even if a little wobbly in execution

Same.
And I could headcanon the corridor into flipping the charges and whatnot of Kirk's matter into antimatter, with that flipping mechanism causing the winking out effect as a door was open. (there is obviously something weird with matter and antimatter inside the corridor because they don't go BOOM when they fight in there.) I just never could come up with a satisfactory reason why the two Lazs were switching all the time without the use of their saucers.

 

[fireproof78]

I think this episode is underrated. It asks a lot of questions and let's the audience ponder possibilities. Never saw that as a bad thing.

 

[Mytran]

I just never could come up with a satisfactory reason why the two Lazs were switching all the time without the use of their saucers.

Well as per my summary upthread, alt-Lazarus only actually switched places with his crazier counterpart twice. In both cases I postulate that al-Laz was doing something behind the scenes we weren't aware of, most likely with the equipment in his own ship.

 

[Phaser Two]

That should be the official motto of this board

You have the best username.

 

[Neopeius]

This episode gets such a bad rap. Maybe it's deserved, but I enjoy watching it. I can follow it, the story is interesting, if rushed, and I get a laugh out of how man times Lazerus falls off cliffs, screaming as if plummeting into a pool of lava.

But it's not dull! Mark of Gideon, Charlie X, Whom Gods Destroy and Patterns of Force (not to mention I, Mudd and A Piece of the Action) are all episodes I'd avoid pulling off the shelf. I would watch The Alternative Factor 18 times more than any of those.

It's next week's episode. I've deliberately not said anything about it. Maybe it'll be a surprise gem (in the rough?) like "Miri" was. Especially with commercials and such.

 

[Trekker09]

As the first episode of Trek to take on the concept of parallel universes, this could have been a riveting standout of the series. It just tried to combine too many themes – matter/antimatter, doppelgangers, good/evil, and time travel, when it needed to focus on one of these ‘deep’ ideas in a coherent manner. And the name Lazarus with its particular association doesn’t seem to connect even as irony.
Also, is an “oxygen-hydrogen atmosphere” possible?
Maybe the fact that Ingalls was a fellow cop and lifelong friend of Roddenberry accounts for the script being accepted. At least they took out the romance that was originally intended.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

As the first episode of Trek to take on the concept of parallel universes, this could have been a riveting standout of the series. It just tried to combine too many themes – matter/antimatter, doppelgangers, good/evil, and time travel, when it needed to focus on one of these ‘deep’ ideas in a coherent manner. And the name Lazarus with its particular association doesn’t seem to connect even as irony.

I probably missed it up above, but does anybody else think that The Alternative Factor and Mirror Mirror could be referring to the exact same alternate universe? Thus Evil Lazarus is just a mentally disturbed civilian from Mirror Spock's empire?

This would also explain how our landing party in Mirror Mirror changed uniforms in the transporter accident. They didn't exchange uniforms, their minds traded bodies. And thus Good Kirk is an anti-matter man during the episode, else he would blow up on contact.

This then opens the door to Lost in Space "The Anti-Matter Man" being set in the same mirror universe as well. All the evidence is converging into a single, unified theory!

 

[Henoch]

Nah. Clearly, insane Lazarus is from our prime universe. Sane Lazarus is from the antimatter universe. No mirror universes were harmed in the making of this episode.

 

[Phaser Two]

I'm really glad (truly - zero snark) there are people who like The Alternative Factor or think it gets a bad rap. I'm sure this means that those of us who think the same of And the Children Shall Lead and Spock's Brain will be greeted with hearty respect and acknowledgment next time those episodes come up.

 

[Mytran]

I'm really glad (truly - zero snark) there are people who like The Alternative Factor or think it gets a bad rap. I'm sure this means that those of us who think the same of And the Children Shall Lead and Spock's Brain will be greeted with hearty respect and acknowledgment next time those episodes come up.

Spock's Brain gets love from me for it's strong first act and unashamedly cheesy remainder.
And The Children Shall Lead is more of a chore for me but I can focus on it's great use of Enterprise ship sets I suppose...

However, only Alternative Factor got a full podcast episode devoted to defending it as a "good" episode and it's done honestly too!
http://www.trek.fm/standard-orbit/148

 

[dupersuper]

I have read a lot of science fiction, and I have read a lot of hard technical stuff. Star Trek is the one that keeps me in line with the fun part. Hard SF is just not fun. It's cool, and interesting, and fascinating to see the tech needed and how it could work. But there's no fun there.

Different strokes...

But it's not dull! Mark of Gideon, Charlie X, Whom Gods Destroy and Patterns of Force (not to mention I, Mudd and A Piece of the Action) are all episodes I'd avoid pulling off the shelf. I would watch The Alternative Factor 18 times more than any of those.

Some more different than others...

I think this episode is underrated. It asks a lot of questions and let's the audience ponder possibilities.

What of Lazarus...?

I probably missed it up above, but does anybody else think that The Alternative Factor and Mirror Mirror could be referring to the exact same alternate universe?

No, I don't think the mirror universe was made of antimatter. I'm pretty sure the Kiras touched each other without exploding.

 

[Ssosmcin]

No, I don't think the mirror universe was made of antimatter. I'm pretty sure the Kiras touched each other without exploding.

Well...Mirror Kira might have.