The Alpha Cygni (Deneb) System

[Timo]

Then again, Trek is rife with examples of unexplored territory that is explicitly mere hundreds of lightyears from Earth - Pollux, for example. And Trek even offers us clues as to why this might happen: the Spatial Anomaly of the Week could be blocking the path of our heroes in certain directions.

Such spatial anomalies can come and go, as happened to the Delphic Expanse. Perhaps a block behind Deneb Kaitos just recently evaporated, allowing Starfleet to mount an exploration effort in that direction, and even prompting it to hasten the pace by outsourcing the support base system.

Certainly we shouldn't draw the conclusion that, just because we see a starship at location A at distance X, Starfleet should be assumed to have explored all locations between Earth and A, or the entire sphere to the radius X from Earth.

However, the case of the Hood is a bit different, because it wouldn't be reasonable to assume her to have loitered to a very distant location at a relatively slow pace long before the E-D. The fact of her ferrying Admiral McCoy around goes against that.

That is, unless somebody writes a novel about the epic journeys of the geriatric old fool at the very limits of Federation reach, culminating in the scene where the whitejacket people finally catch up with him at Deneb IV.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Christopher]

Then again, Trek is rife with examples of unexplored territory that is explicitly mere hundreds of lightyears from Earth - Pollux, for example.

Heck, Pollux is only 34 light-years away.

And Trek even offers us clues as to why this might happen: the Spatial Anomaly of the Week could be blocking the path of our heroes in certain directions.

There's no need for that. It's a simple matter of quantity. There are probably close to 15,000 star systems within just 100 light-years of Earth, and that's not counting brown dwarfs. Even if you assume there are enough starships in service to visit an average of one new star system per week, it would still take nearly 300 years just to visit every system within a "mere" hundred light-years. Since TOS is set only about 115 years after NX-01 began exploring in earnest, and since the pace of exploration would probably increase over time, I'd suspect that as of the TOS era, Starfleet has visited under 25% of the stars within a mere 100 light-years of Earth. By the TNG era it might be up to 60% or so.

However, the case of the Hood is a bit different, because it wouldn't be reasonable to assume her to have loitered to a very distant location at a relatively slow pace long before the E-D. The fact of her ferrying Admiral McCoy around goes against that.

That is, unless somebody writes a novel about the epic journeys of the geriatric old fool at the very limits of Federation reach, culminating in the scene where the whitejacket people finally catch up with him at Deneb IV.

In my Trek fiction, I've gone with the assumption that Farpoint was at Just Plain Deneb, Alpha Cygni, but I'm increasingly convinced now that Deneb in the Trek universe must be closer than we estimate. The closest it could be based on current parallax measurements is 2063 ly, which is still pretty distant, but not as bad as the median estimate of 3229 ly. (The parallax is 1.01 +/- 0.57 milli-arcseconds; take the inverse of that and multiply by 1000 to get the distance in parsecs, then multiply by 3.26 to get light-years.) And 2063 ly isn't far off from its estimated distance in those dim pre-HIPPARCOS days when "Farpoint" was written, which was about 1800 ly.

 

[BrotherBenny]

I've gone with Christopher's assumption of a three week journey to Alpha Cygni's Deneb from Earth for my fan fiction project, but I'd still like to know why such a distant star was chosen in the first place.

 

[Christopher]

I've gone with Christopher's assumption of a three week journey to Alpha Cygni's Deneb from Earth for my fan fiction project, but I'd still like to know why such a distant star was chosen in the first place.

For the same reason that unlikely-to-be-inhabited stars like Rigel, Castor, Antares, and the like were chosen for other episodes -- because they're names that the general audience is likely to be familiar with, and the makers of the shows went with familiarity over technical accuracy. Also because our estimates of star distances are often inaccurate; as I said, prior to the HIPPARCOS survey (a massive survey of stellar parallaxes completed in 1996), we thought Deneb was only 1800 light-years away.

Also because Trek's assumptions about the range of Federation exploration have changed greatly over the years. In TOS, it was assumed that Starfleet explorations spanned thousands of light-years, even reaching the edge of the galaxy. The reason Star Charts had to embrace a small-Federation model is because of decisions made for story reasons in later series, such as having DS9 (a station beyond the UFP's borders) be within a week or two of Earth, or having Klingon and Romulan territory be within range of Archer's Enterprise.

 

[Cid Highwind]

Such spatial anomalies can come and go, as happened to the Delphic Expanse. Perhaps a block behind Deneb Kaitos just recently evaporated, allowing Starfleet to mount an exploration effort in that direction, and even prompting it to hasten the pace by outsourcing the support base system.

This is, in fact, what I assumed for the small project I started years ago (and which turned out to be bigger than I could maintain ).

Incited by the great Star Charts, I tried to create a 3D-model of Treks "local space". Early on, I decided that Farpoint must be Deneb Kaitos.

In my interpretation, access to Deneb Kaitos was blocked by the territory of the Cardassian Union. When the borderline was redrawn in the mid-24th century, after the Cardassian Wars, this opened up "the unexplored mass of the galaxy" behind Cardassian territory for Federation exploration.

In this case, it wouldn't have to be the fact that the Federation couldn't reach Deneb at all, before. It would rather be a matter of convenience - if there's enough space to explore in any direction, you wouldn't choose the one spot that's located in the backyard of your enemy.

 

[Stevil2001]

This is part of why, in the book continuity, he wasn't the E-D's original captain. He was Starfleet's preferred choice for the job, but he declined (for reasons explained in The Buried Age), so Thomas Holloway (the E-D's captain in the alternate "Tapestry" timeline) was given the captaincy.

His name is Halloway, and he didn't retire.

 

[Christopher]

Halloway. Sorry. I always get that wrong.

 

[Therin of Andor]

the stardate that Picard took command from "The Drumhead", 41124, would by that same convention be something like 10 days before "Encounter at Farpoint". This would also be inconsistent with the SD from "All Good Things..." which placed Picard in command SD 41148, even closer, about 2 days before "...Farpoint" and signed curiously enough by Norah Satie herself. So wackiness abounds, simply placing things within the classic Trek-Pilot-Syndrome.

Not so wacky. IIRC, the novelization of "Farpoint" has Data in temporary command of the ship when it picks up Picard to begin his official tour of duty.

 

[TheAlmanac]

Fair enough. It just seems that every episode and movie features enough assorted pet peeves to be discredited if need be. Things are difficult enough when we have a statistical spread of datapoints with a couple of infamous outliers. If we twist that dataset by picking and choosing the episodes according to our personal tastes, it doesn't exactly help with things.

That said, I often find the most interesting and surprising tidbits on ST technology and science come from the worst-written episodes. Accidental science fiction at its best! Thus I'd very much like to work things from ST5, or "Magics", or "That Which Survives" or "Lights of Zetar" or "Paradise Syndrome" into the theory of everything, even if they come with a baggage of peeves.

Well, one leads to the other, doesn't it? The "worst-written episodes" aren't the ones that other writers are likely to build upon, so the universe comes to more closely resemble what is established in the favourite episodes as opposed to the "infamous outliers"...

This applies to Star Trek's galactic geography as much as it applies to any other part of canon.

 

[KRAD]

Well, one leads to the other, doesn't it? The "worst-written episodes" aren't the ones that other writers are likely to build upon, so the universe comes to more closely resemble what is established in the favourite episodes as opposed to the "infamous outliers"...

Indeed. People aren't exactly breaking down the doors to follow up on "Plato's Stepchildren" or "Threshold."

OTOH, crappy episodes have had good sequels, at least in SCE, where we did two sequels to "Return of the Archons" and sequels to "Too Short a Season" and "Up the Long Ladder."

Then again, "The Enterprise Incident" has about eight billion sequels, and it's one of the low points of TOS, IMO....

 

[TheAlmanac]

Well, one leads to the other, doesn't it? The "worst-written episodes" aren't the ones that other writers are likely to build upon, so the universe comes to more closely resemble what is established in the favourite episodes as opposed to the "infamous outliers"...

Indeed. People aren't exactly breaking down the doors to follow up on "Plato's Stepchildren" or "Threshold."

I have a soft spot for "Plato's Stepchildren," so I'd be intrigued at what someone might try to do in a sequel...

OTOH, crappy episodes have had good sequels, at least in SCE, where we did two sequels to "Return of the Archons" and sequels to "Too Short a Season" and "Up the Long Ladder."

Certainly, but I'm not even necessarily talking about direct sequels, just canonical "facts" in the form of fictional history, geography, and so forth that get reinforced (or not) depending on how well-liked the source is. If an episode/movie is thought of as bad (e.g. "Threshold," which you mentioned, and which is quite widely reviled), it's that much easier to ignore what's established therein (in this case, what happens at Warp 10).

Then again, "The Enterprise Incident" has about eight billion sequels, and it's one of the low points of TOS, IMO....

Wow, now there's a minority opinion...

I imagine your disdain for it isn't for geographical/astronomical reasons?

 

[BrotherBenny]

I would like to see someone follow up on "Threshold." I mean, someone could use interference from a higher race in order to explain it or something. But there are so many holes in that one which could make a good sequel.

 

[Stevil2001]

Then again, "The Enterprise Incident" has about eight billion sequels, and it's one of the low points of TOS, IMO....

Wow, now there's a minority opinion...

Keith is about the only other person I've ever seen express this opinion, but I agree with it. Mostly because the plot requires the female Romulan commander to be as dumb as a post.

 

[Christopher]

I would like to see someone follow up on "Threshold." I mean, someone could use interference from a higher race in order to explain it or something. But there are so many holes in that one which could make a good sequel.

I used to assume that the salamander mutation thing was a trick that the Q played on races who dabbled in their higher-dimensional realms. But that falls apart because the Doctor, who really should know better, was talking about it as some kind of predictable evolutionary process.

My other "fix" would be to assume that everything after the initial test run was a hallucination that Tom experienced. But that wouldn't explain why the transwarp research was abandoned thereafter (something which doesn't make any sense in the episode taken at face value either).

But given that Berman and Braga themselves disown "Threshold" as an apocryphal episode that never really happened, I'm happy to follow their lead.

 

[BrotherBenny]

Isn't it fun to fix stuff?

 

[Christopher]

Isn't it fun to fix stuff?

When it's fixable, yes. But sometimes the best fix is the trash can.

 

[BrotherBenny]

Isn't it fun to fix stuff?

When it's fixable, yes. But sometimes the best fix is the trash can.

Are you telling me that with all the science and creativity at your disposal, you can't create a workaround for that? It would be a challenge, granted, but wouldn't it be worth it?

 

[Christopher]

A workaround for the Doctor, the greatest medical mind in the Delta Quadrant, being so foolish as to think that evolution is in any way predictable? Sorry, that's just not worth the trouble, especially when the producers themselves have declared it an imaginary story.

 

[KRAD]

Keith is about the only other person I've ever seen express this opinion, but I agree with it. Mostly because the plot requires the female Romulan commander to be as dumb as a post.

Word. Also Kirk says right there in the episode that standard Romulan procedure is to fire on ships that cross the border, which makes me wonder what would've happened to Starfleet's brilliant covert op if they had fired and blown up the Enterprise. Kirk and Spock's entire plan depended on events completely out of their control, and also would've failed dismally if the Romulan Commander didn't turn into a sixteen-year-old with her first crush for no obvious reason. (Then again, falling instantly and passionately and overwhelmingly in love with someone was a running theme of the third season, viz. "Requiem for Methuselah," "The Lights of Zetar," and "For the World Is Hollow and This Title's Too Damn Long.") Also, the Romulan ship apparently never raised its shields, since the Enterprise was transporting people left and right....

 

[Timo]

But consider that the mission must have depended on inside intelligence to begin with. Without an agent in the Romulan fleet, Starfleet couldn't really have hoped to locate the new cloaking device, let alone safely unhook it and reinstall it aboard one of their ships.

Now, it would be a bit much to claim that the Commander herself was that agent. But given the way Romulans have been described on screen as a backstabbing and dishonorable lot (or alternately given the way Romulans have been described in the novels as a backstabbing and honorable lot), it would make perfect sense for there to be an inside man or eleven who would help out Kirk and Spock at every turn.

At the very least, such insiders would have confirmed what is a natural assumption anyway: that the Romulan border forces would go for capture rather than destruction if handed the Enterprise on a platter. They could have instructed Kirk to do the intrusion at a specific sector so that he would face a specific Commander. And they could have instructed Starfleet to devise a xenopsychologically sound plan that would leave the Commander cocky enough to actually wait for the Federation ship's surrender, shields down.

I wonder why this aspect of the episode has never really been worked into the zillion literary sequels?

Timo Saloniemi