Not at all. That was not my intent at all.
The Ahsoka series is coming.
- Thread starter Mach5
- Start date
'fraid not.
I remember Lucas' tier system and finding it headache inducing.
Yeah, the EU was "C-canon," below "G-canon" (aka, canon) and "T-canon". IOW, it was two tiers below canon.
There were 6 levels of canon in the internal LucasFilm 'Holocron' database before The Great Wipe
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Canon#Canon_in_the_Holocron_continuity_database
G-Canon (George Lucas) - The movies, including deleting scenes if they didn't contradict anything that made it into the film. Later revisions of the movies took priority over the originals.
T- Canon (Television), the CG Clone Wars and its movie. Would have included Underworld if it hadn't been cancelled
C-Canon (Continuity) - The EU on a whole, minus stuff like the very original Marvel comics
S-Canon (Secondary) - Includes the above mentioned original Marvel comics and other stuff that really couldn't fit into the wider C-Canon label, but weren't completely non-canon.
D-Canon (Detours) - The animated parody series made by the Robot Chicken guys that was never released
N-Canon (Non-Canon) - things that are clearly non-canon, like the Infinities Comic series.
This tier system is no longer used. If there is a new system, it's isn't publicly known.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Canon#Canon_in_the_Holocron_continuity_database
G-Canon (George Lucas) - The movies, including deleting scenes if they didn't contradict anything that made it into the film. Later revisions of the movies took priority over the originals.
T- Canon (Television), the CG Clone Wars and its movie. Would have included Underworld if it hadn't been cancelled
C-Canon (Continuity) - The EU on a whole, minus stuff like the very original Marvel comics
S-Canon (Secondary) - Includes the above mentioned original Marvel comics and other stuff that really couldn't fit into the wider C-Canon label, but weren't completely non-canon.
D-Canon (Detours) - The animated parody series made by the Robot Chicken guys that was never released
N-Canon (Non-Canon) - things that are clearly non-canon, like the Infinities Comic series.
This tier system is no longer used. If there is a new system, it's isn't publicly known.
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It wasn't his system. Lucas only had one tier of canon; his (because that's literally what "canon" means.)
That whole mess was something created by the licencing people as a way to easily solve any inevitable contradictions in any item of merchandise *without* having to bother Lucas with memos about stuff he doesn't care about.
They did so with the best of intentions, but should never have made it public since a huge swath of the fandom to this day still can't wrap their brains around it's intended function. They insist that it's some kind of means of objective value judgement.
It's also where you get the asinine claim that the "old canon" was "erased", which is utter nonsense on both counts. 1) The EU was never canon. 2) They just stopped making new material under the EU banner, and instead decided to make all the new material in line with what is, was, and has always been canon.
Indeed.
But why would there be any need to "solve contradictions" if the offending material in question is all non-canon anyway? What is the purpose of even having the "solution"?
It was canon, that's why they went on record that they were decanonizing it. And they then proclaimed that the "new EU" would be canon. Which would be a curious position to take if in fact Star Wars operated under the Star Trek system as is usually alleged.
This is absurd. "They just stopped making new material under the old EU banner, and instead started making new material under the new EU banner, which is totally different you guys...."
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Personally I've always looked at the comics, novels, etc as an offshoot of the movies, like how Stargate SG-1 was based on Stargate: The Movie, but still it's own thing. Makes things less confusing and annoying when the new thing disregards the old thing that the things were based off of.
Star Wars does not use the Star Trek system. Even when internet randos insist that it does.
But if this category is the non-canon portion, what does that tell us about everything else?Tuskin38 said:
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Ultimately, I treat it as stories. Inconsistencies are a part of how people tell stories.
It's generally best to think of it the way the people actually making it think of it; reference books, visual guides, atlases, cross-section books, that kind of thing (basically any non-narrative publication) are all mostly just tie-in merchandise there to promote and/or support whatever movie or show or whatever is coming out at the time. Anything new it introduces should be regarded as "pencilled in" until some storyteller chooses to include it (or not.) And that's fine.
For example; in the 'Rogue Once Ultimate Guide' book that came out to promote the film, Cassian's homeworld was listed as Fest (presumably as a sideways nod at 'Dark Forces' for obvious reasons.) Fast forward to 'Andor' coming out, and while yes Fest gets namechecked in a way that manages to both contradict and agree with said book, the author (Pablo Hidalgo) still took to twitter to express his surprise that they did that and made it clear that they really didn't need to.
So yeah if a member of the story group has no expectation that a throwaway detail he wrote in a reference book should be taken as gospel, there's no reason to think anything else should be either. It's entirely at the discretion of a given storyteller, which is as it should be. Story should always take precedent.
As for the narrative stories; the most important thing is that each story is expressing what happened within the context of it's own medium. That's how you get things like the apparent contradiction between TotJ & the Ahsoka novel. One is telling the story in about 13mins of animation, while leaning heavily on the Kurosawa & John Ford minimalist/romantic visual style. The other is telling the same basic story in 350 pages of prose. If it had been a two hour live action movie, I anticipate that it would be different from both of them. And if it were a season of television, then it would likely have been even more involved than the novel, and have at least one comedic side-mission with a funny droid, or weird alien character righ before the finale that everyone will complain about.
Point being: don't get bogged down in the details.
For example; in the 'Rogue Once Ultimate Guide' book that came out to promote the film, Cassian's homeworld was listed as Fest (presumably as a sideways nod at 'Dark Forces' for obvious reasons.) Fast forward to 'Andor' coming out, and while yes Fest gets namechecked in a way that manages to both contradict and agree with said book, the author (Pablo Hidalgo) still took to twitter to express his surprise that they did that and made it clear that they really didn't need to.
So yeah if a member of the story group has no expectation that a throwaway detail he wrote in a reference book should be taken as gospel, there's no reason to think anything else should be either. It's entirely at the discretion of a given storyteller, which is as it should be. Story should always take precedent.
As for the narrative stories; the most important thing is that each story is expressing what happened within the context of it's own medium. That's how you get things like the apparent contradiction between TotJ & the Ahsoka novel. One is telling the story in about 13mins of animation, while leaning heavily on the Kurosawa & John Ford minimalist/romantic visual style. The other is telling the same basic story in 350 pages of prose. If it had been a two hour live action movie, I anticipate that it would be different from both of them. And if it were a season of television, then it would likely have been even more involved than the novel, and have at least one comedic side-mission with a funny droid, or weird alien character righ before the finale that everyone will complain about.
Point being: don't get bogged down in the details.
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Sure, but you did state it as an opinion, you said point blank that they were EU and second tier, not that they weren't as important to you as the movies. So if someone who isn't as aware of all of this saw that they might have thought you stating a fact about how all of this is laid out.
