The 90's Golden Age.

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by WhateverMan, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. Coloratura

    Coloratura Unsung Aria Premium Member

    Dec 25, 2002
    United States
    Some people just love to hate. If the next movie executed a script that followed the suggestions of those who hate the Abramsverse, it would be slammed by those same people for being predictable. There are some people who will just hate it to hate it, and will always find some kind of reason to do so; whether it be because the only people who like it are illiterates (I love the movies and I've been reading since I was 3!), just like big dumb action movies (I love deep, introspective movies), or aren't "real" Trek fans (I've been a fan since the age of 4, when my mother sat me down in front of TOS and I was hooked. That's 29 years of Trek fandom).

    Usually they're ignored, but when someone posts something blatantly false, or opinion masqueraded as a fact, of course people are going to shoot it down, only to find that person getting into a fit because their opinion isn't accepted as fact. They don't like it, so you shouldn't like it, else you're not a "real, true" Trek fan.

    They're fundamentalists, but instead of a classic religion, they've chosen their favorite Trek as their idol, and the heretics be damned.
  2. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Jun 19, 2013
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    ^Thanks for the ad hominem.
  3. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

    Jul 25, 2012
    Va. Beach, VA
    Spot on.
  4. Trek Survivor

    Trek Survivor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jan 12, 2009
    My golden age is the period 1994-1996. Such a fun time to be a fan! In the space of those two years I had:

    * The finale of TNG (still remember trotting down to John Menzies to pick up the video after school. October 1994)

    * Build-up, hype and premiere of "Generations" (we in the UK got it in Feb 1995). This has to be the biggest "mass popularity" push Trek had (before 2009 at least).

    * The release of Star Trek Monthly (a brand new monthly Trek magazine! March 1995)

    * Premiere of Voyager (video released in the UK June 1995. Again, such clear memories of eagerly racing down to the shop to buy this one and then watch it with my friends)

    * Season 4 of Ds9, all the speculation about Worf joining etc (1995; the series premiered on video here in the UK in Feb 1996)

    * Loads of Trek merchanidse around; the book programme went into overdrive; loads of behind-the-scenes type books as well as novels. Plus toys, videos etc.

    * 30th Anniversary of Trek - a whole BBC2 night of programming devoted to Trek, inc. the terrestrial premiere of Voyager (Aug 1996)

    * Premiere of First Contact (December 1996). I went to its opening night in Oxford with my mates. Such good times

    So there you go; just a great time to be a fan. I was 15/16, got some disposable income of my own for the first time etc... yeah. Good times.
  5. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jul 1, 2011
    The great gig in the sky
    90s indeed, it started with TNG's season 3 and ended with the last season of DS9. After that the quality went downhill. Oh well good times.
  6. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    I've no doubt that describes some fans. Then there are others, like me, who simply think the Abram's films are dull.
  7. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Feb 18, 2009
    Nu trek doesn't have the advantage of having episodes to establish the characters the way TOS and TNG did.

    If they rebooted it and added new stuff like Uhura's and Spock's relationship (I have to admit, I get nothing from it) then it's going to turn some fans off.

    Then again, Trek franchise was lagging, and I don't necessarily think they wrote it entirely for Trek fans anyway. Business wise, that was a smart decision.

    I don't think people who don't like Nutrek are bitter and close-minded, I suspect they don't like the recent 'blockbuster movie' formula it's written around.

    Everything appears hyperactive, shallow, gimmicky with lots and lots and lots of explosions.

    Remedy-- watch what you think is a lame movie (or marathon) during the holiday season when nothing else is on..this can make a movie grow on you. :lol:
  8. Viper78

    Viper78 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Aug 1, 2013
    Absolutely spot on :techman:
  9. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Kirk and Spock are pretty well-established characters.

    That's mainly what it is for me. Action movies today don't start with the script, they start with a list of ideas for set pieces, then a story is built around that. Call me old fashioned, but I think a movie should begin with the story, with a writer who actually has something to say. Instead of a story that builds to a climax, you have one action set piece after another; it makes for a flat movie experience. Setup, pay-off, next set piece; set-up, pay-off, next set piece.

    That said, there are certainly are close-minded fans who would never accept a reboot of any kind. What they fail to see, and whether they want to admit it or not, is that Trek has already been rebooted several times.

    I have a better solution -- I just don't try to make myself like lame movies.
  10. TheGoodStuff

    TheGoodStuff Captain Captain

    Sep 9, 2013
    TOS is repetitive. It has about 2 plots it recycles constantly:

    1. Super powered being threatens the ship. [Charlie X, Trelane, Abe Lincoln, Mitchell]
    2. Kirk & someone beam down, end up stranded, ship is threatened.

    This combines with frequent plot holes and nonsense [duplicate Earth in Miri, the greatest geological discovery of all time, never gets mentioned. Spock's Brain...The Empath....all full of nonsense]

    *sigh* You are pointlessly quoting a few bad episodes out of hundreds produced by those 3 series. AS I STATED WAS THE CASE.

    No it is not sameness. 'The Inner Light', 'Best of Both Worlds', 'Year of Hell', 'Far beyond the Stars' etc etc are all far better episodes than anything TOS could come up with.

    No thats what you are saying. I stated I love TOS if you read my post. It simply IS the poorest of all the shows in my opinion. Its weakly written and frequently nonsensical.

    Im aware, from my years of lurking here, how many fanboys of TOS are here. As much as I love it, I view TOS as more of a nostalgia-trip than anything even close to TNG, DS9, VOY. It simply isn't as deep, as clever, as moving, as sharp....

    Some of the tones in response to my comment is disappointing. I really dont think it is deserving of 'eye-rolls' or 'I need a drink' comments to say: 21 seasons of TNG, DS9 & VOY are far better than anything the 3 of TOS produced.

    And I do not care how many noses that statement puts out of joint. :guffaw:
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Has Hollywood ever really operated that way though? Especially in regards to big budget movies?

    Did Harve Bennett go to Paramount with The Wrath of Khan? They went to him. I'm also sure that they had a checklist of things that had to be accomplished by the films story (including killing off Spock). Much like Moore and Braga were given a checklist of things that had to be done in Generations.

    I think when you have smaller, independent films the writers are much more a driving force. In big-budget or franchise films, the directors and the studios have a much bigger say in the product.

    Is it the right way? I don't know? But it has been this way for a really long time.
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    As a reader of science-fiction, I appreciate what TOS did far more than what the spin-offs later did. They weren't afraid of any idea, no matter how outlandish it looked on paper. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. But that is why I find TOS to be one of the absolute best TV series of all time.

    Modern Trek simply became 'very safe'. Very little of what was done during those twenty-five seasons fired my imagination the way the original Star Trek did.

    Be prepared for some ribbing no matter what statements you put forth here. This is a very eclectic collection of people with wildly varying viewpoints. :techman:
  13. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Jun 19, 2013
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    That's some major parsing. Hober Mallow wrote much more about what he thought about the scripting process. Moreover, I don't think that the fact that filmmaking is a collaborative process, involving many people, negates his point.
  14. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I usually don't quote a posters entire post, only what's relevant to a point I'm making. It bothers me to have to scroll again through a complete post after having already read it. It's a pet peeve of mine.

    I'm not trying to negate his point. Only state that different types of films are driven by different objectives.
  15. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 19, 2013
    Last place in Australia to get the NBN
    Yes TOS fanboys are just lame whereas TNG, DS9 and VOY fanboys are deeper, cleverer, more moving and sharper. :lol:
  16. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 15, 2012
    People who take shots at other people for liking differing things are so classy. It's really great and in tune with the message of Star Trek that all differences are to be scorned and ridiculed.
  17. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Jun 19, 2013
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    Not the actual cut and paste, but the fact that you reduce Hober Mallow's argument to this one sentence, when his complete thought went on.
  18. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    And we know how well that turned out.

    I think what Moore and Braga did back then is akin to what goes on now with set-pieces. Don't get me wrong, it clearly is a winning formula for putting butts in theater seats. I don't like them much, but clearly many do. But is anyone going to be talking about this last year's worth of Hollywood action flicks in ten years time? I doubt it.
    I can't complain. I do that, too. :)
    Same here. Yes, there were parallel earths in TOS, but is that really any different than virtually every alien in the Berman era looking like a bumpy-headed human with virtually identical and, astoundingly, compatible technology (communications, warp speed, UT, transporters, etc.).
  19. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer I am the modman, goo goo goo joob Moderator

    Feb 4, 2002
    Sitting in a nutmeg garden waiting for the sun
    Abraham Lincoln didn't threaten the ship.
  20. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    "Drop your shields and surrender or I shall suspend the writ of habeas corpus."