The 14th amendment

[Squiggy]

^You have a problem with Irishmen, Toad?

 

[Rush Limborg]

Sure....

 

[Davros]

We don't have an official language

Maybe not technically, but *effectively* we do. It's English. The least they could do is learn to speak it.

This may be news to you but as with all immigration movements the first generation nearly always keeps speaking it's native tounge as their main language. But their kids nearly always speak English as their main language.

 

[Garak]

^You have a problem with Irishmen, Toad?

Who doesn't have a problem with perpetually drunk, lazy people who beat their wives? You?

 

[Rush Limborg]

^We also are notorious for our tempers, Mister. Tread lightly.




(Not bluffing. I am part Irish. And in case you're wondering...I'm also part Hispanic.)

 

[Squiggy]

Watch out Garak. Internet Tough Guy is getting tough!

Meh. It's probably the booze talking.

 

[Davros]

^We also are notorious for our tempers, Mister. Tread lightly.

I don't have to tread lightly. I have a gun.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Make & Model?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

^You have a problem with Irishmen, Toad?

Who doesn't have a problem with perpetually drunk, lazy people who beat their wives? You?

Knock it off. Squiggy's was a mild joke, but this is crossing the line and trolling.

^We also are notorious for our tempers, Mister. Tread lightly.

(Not bluffing...)

You knock it off, too.


[edit] Missed this one:

Watch out Garak. Internet Tough Guy is getting tough!

Meh. It's probably the booze talking.

Yep, that's trolling as well. Enough.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^We also are notorious for our tempers, Mister. Tread lightly.

(Not bluffing...)

You knock it off, too.

Gladly.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

I have three conditions that I feel are MUSTS vis a vis immigration:

• They must do so legally
• They must have skills we need.
• At the time they wish to come, we have room for them.

I do not believe that every person (regardless of nationality) who can walk, crawl, swim or smuggle themselves across our border should be allowed to stay.

I'd argue that the fact that they are employed here is proof that they have skills we need. Most people I know have houses and we have the capability to use some of our unused land if we have to if we are concerned about overcrowding. That's two out of three. The first one, to me, strikes me as a symptom of the stonewalling on immigration. If it was as simple as asking to come, then they would (nobody likes the hassle of sneaking here).

As for your statistics, that would solve the problem of unemployment, but we'd have a much greater crisis of underemployment. To solve unemployment, we need to grow the economy and create jobs that support people's lives; not encourage people to work three jobs and 90 hours, plus employ their families working minimum wage.

And that's not going to happen as long as we continue to allow unfettered immigration. The more people you have competing for scarce jobs, the lower the wages become as the bosses turn job seeking into a contest to see just how desperate people are.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

You miss my point. Those aren't the jobs we have to worry about at the moment. It's jobs that can employ the middle class that are key. Those jobs are always going to go to the marginalized in society or to the very young who have no other work experience. To give an example, a kitchen at a restaurant. Most of the people in the kitchen are Mexican immigrants, but some are individuals without a college education and probably a criminal record who aren't employed other places. And kitchen work is probably better than field work.

What's more of concern are the bigger jobs. Gardening and food preparation aren't going to make the economy grow, even if they did pay more (all paying more does in a restaurant, for example, is make it even more expensive. Labor is already the number one expense and servers only get paid 2.23 an hour. That is well below minimum wage as well and that has nothing to do with immigrants).

 

[Davros]

Make & Model?

Spingfield XD .45

 

[Davros]

And that's not going to happen as long as we continue to allow unfettered immigration.

We are allowing no such thing.

The more people you have competing for scarce jobs, the lower the wages become as the bosses turn job seeking into a contest to see just how desperate people are.

Blame the corporations that shipped those jobs to the third world and the morons who passed the free trade arangements that helped make it possible, not the people who are here to work in the fruitpicking jobs you were never going to apply for in the first place.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

You miss my point. Those aren't the jobs we have to worry about at the moment. It's jobs that can employ the middle class that are key. Those jobs are always going to go to the marginalized in society or to the very young who have no other work experience. To give an example, a kitchen at a restaurant. Most of the people in the kitchen are Mexican immigrants, but some are individuals without a college education and probably a criminal record who aren't employed other places. And kitchen work is probably better than field work.What's more of concern are the bigger jobs. Gardening and food preparation aren't going to make the economy grow,

So it's all right that those workers are underpaid and treated poorly because they aren't "middle class" workers. Guess what: poor people DO buy things. Make it possible for them to buy more, and cumulatively they create demand.

even if they did pay more (all paying more does in a restaurant, for example, is make it even more expensive. Labor is already the number one expense and servers only get paid 2.23 an hour. That is well below minimum wage as well and that has nothing to do with immigrants).

I hate tip labor. Tips are SUPPOSED to be gratuities (which is why they call them that), rewards for superlative service. They shouldn't be a subsidy so the resteraunt can thumb it' nose at the wage laws.

And that's not going to happen as long as we continue to allow unfettered immigration.

We are allowing no such thing.

We aren't rounding them up and shipping them back where they came from. The Obammasiah wants to issue an amnesty, even.

The more people you have competing for scarce jobs, the lower the wages become as the bosses turn job seeking into a contest to see just how desperate people are.

Blame the corporations that shipped those jobs to the third world and the morons who passed the free trade arangements that helped make it possible, not the people who are here to work in the fruitpicking jobs you were never going to apply for in the first place.

Maybe not, but you assume that each job is static and only affects itself. The economy is communal, not individualistic. Higher wages for one sector stimulates demand which improves jobs in other sectors which stimulates MORE demand, and so forth.

"The rising tide lifts all boats."

 

[Tawny18]

Do you think it's right, that children of illegal immigrants born here are automatically made US citizens? Should we make people US citizens simply because they happen to be born on US soil? Shouldn't there be SOME tie to the US before we bestow US citizenship, and all that goes with it on someone? A woman from anywhere in the world could be visiting the US on vacation, and just happen to deliver her baby here... boom, US citizen, entitled to a free education, welfare, ect. Personally, I think it's nuts. The 14th amendment was created to protect the rights of newly freed slaves, all well and good, but today it is being exploited by people who come here to have their children just so they can reap the benefits and hand outs that us taxpayers provide.

And before you call me a racist, a bigot, or a Nazi, I am all for anyone who really wants to be a US citizen. Anyone who wants to come here legally, and give up all allegiances to their homeland for the US, is welcome in my book.

Why shouldn't they? They were born here. We're not going to give them their U.S Citizenship just cause their parents are foreigners?

 

[Squiggy]

We aren't rounding them up and shipping them back where they came from.

Because it would be logistically impossible to do and wouldn't stop anything.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Why shouldn't they? They were born here. We're not going to give them their U.S Citizenship just cause their parents are foreigners?

They wouldn't have been born here if their parents hadn't committed a crime by jumping the border.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Why shouldn't they? They were born here. We're not going to give them their U.S Citizenship just cause their parents are foreigners?

They wouldn't have been born here if their parents hadn't committed a crime by jumping the border.

Do you want to punish the children of everyone who breaks a law? Speeders? Tax cheats?

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Why shouldn't they? They were born here. We're not going to give them their U.S Citizenship just cause their parents are foreigners?

They wouldn't have been born here if their parents hadn't committed a crime by jumping the border.

Do you want to punish the children of everyone who breaks a law? Speeders? Tax cheats?

Not being given automatic citizenship is not a punishment.

But let's play it out. It's not hard. Assuming we continue birthright citizenship granted to everyone whose mama makes it over the border, then take the citizen baby for adoption by his/her fellow citizens and deport the parent(s).

Problem solved. The criminals are punished the baby is cared for.