The 14th amendment

[Rush Limborg]

It's best for them to learn fluent English, too.

You live in our society, you'd better learn how to interact in our society.

We're supposed to be a nation, not a bloody "multinational state". A nation is a specific people, with a specific culture, and a specific heritage. That is what we were meant to be--a melting pot, not a stew.

You want in? Become an American, learn the language, learn and accept our heritage, and Pledge Allegiance To The Flag Of The United States Of America.

 

[Squiggy]

You want in? Become an American, learn the language, learn and accept our heritage, and Pledge Allegiance To The Flag Of The United States Of America.

What's this shared heritage of ours?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

It's best for them to learn fluent English, too.

You live in our society, you'd better learn how to interact in our society.

If you follow the trends of every other immigrant, it'll be first generation knows some English, second generation is pretty much bilingual, third generation is completely integrated. I haven't seen any signs of this being different (note, signs in individual families. Obviously, if more immigrants come, their cycle starts with them).

We're supposed to be a nation, not a bloody "multinational state". A nation is a specific people, with a specific culture, and a specific heritage. That is what we were meant to be--a melting pot, not a stew.

You want in? Become an American, learn the language, learn and accept our heritage, and Pledge Allegiance To The Flag Of The United States Of America.

Leaving aside the significant helpings of bullshit, I do agree that, if you want to become a citizen, you need to declare yourself to be an American (using American to refer to people of the United States here). Our heritage is too diverse to quantify, so I'm not sure about what you mean, but I'll let it go.

That being said, plenty of people go to countries for reasons besides becoming citizens of that country. I went to the United Kingdom and to Italy for purposes of studying, for example. Other people get work visas. They're not declaring loyalty to the United States, they're asking to work. Keep in mind that reasons for immigration differ by the individual.

 

[Squiggy]

It's best for them to learn fluent English, too.

You live in our society, you'd better learn how to interact in our society.

If you follow the trends of every other immigrant, it'll be first generation knows some English, second generation is pretty much bilingual, third generation is completely integrated. I haven't seen any signs of this being different (note, signs in individual families. Obviously, if more immigrants come, their cycle starts with them).

That's how it is now. The current round of immigrants gets integrated more quickly than the immigrants of 150 and 100 years ago. This is just how it is. You can't just move to another country and instantly become a WASP. Reality hasn't ever worked that way.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

No one called you a racist. Why not try arguing WITHOUT the strawman?

You need to re-read what Davros posted...it's right there in the last line.

No, YOU need to comprehend what he said. Davros did not call Kail a racist.

I quote him:

Seeing how the only babies people are worried about seem to be hispanic, it is hard to see people who wish to void their rights as anything but racist.

He is saying that anyone (in this case Kail) who supports proper immigration control is a racist.

 

[Rush Limborg]

You want in? Become an American, learn the language, learn and accept our heritage, and Pledge Allegiance To The Flag Of The United States Of America.

What's this shared heritage of ours?

Let's see.

Coming from far and wide to a Land of Opportunity....

Shaking off the shackles of discrimination and tyrrany from the nations which our ancestors came from....

Holding these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal (not that they're entitled to equal results), endowed with certain unalienable rights--Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness, etc.--

And all that good stuff. Freedom, hard work, truth, justice--and the American Way.

 

[Squiggy]

You want in? Become an American, learn the language, learn and accept our heritage, and Pledge Allegiance To The Flag Of The United States Of America.

What's this shared heritage of ours?

Let's see.

Coming from far and wide to a Land of Opportunity....

Shaking off the shackles of discrimination and tyrrany from the nations which our ancestors came from....

Which is exactly what these people are doing.

 

[Kail]

No one called you a racist. Why not try arguing WITHOUT the strawman?

You need to re-read what Davros posted...it's right there in the last line.

But shouldn't it be simpler for the Mexican who simply wants a better life, and wants it in the grand old USA?

Now who's the racist? We should have different rules for Mexicans than anyone else?

You and I are just different.

I do not view HUMAN BEINGS as economic entities.

Unfortunately, there is an economic reality we MUST consider.

I have three conditions that I feel are MUSTS vis a vis immigration:

• They must do so legally
• They must have skills we need.
• At the time they wish to come, we have room for them.

You might want to insert a forth criteria, current economic conditions. Take into account the U6 unemployment rate, especially among non-white American citizens.

There's old cleshay about "jobs Americans won't do," well American's want them now.

Which brings up another point, illegals are being exploited. If they want to work, they are often forced to work off the books for FAR below minimum wage. We need to seriously crack down on those employing illegals as well.

It's best for them to learn fluent English, too.

You live in our society, you'd better learn how to interact in our society.

You want in? Become an American, learn the language, learn and accept our heritage, and Pledge Allegiance To The Flag Of The United States Of America.

Amen. I do not want to press one for English. Immigrants use to be proud to be Americans, they WANTED to learn English and be REAL Americans. Today, as soon as they get here, they want to protest against America, and proudly fly the flag of the country they just escaped. I find it ironic in most of the countries they come from they would never be allowed to protest their government.

What's this shared heritage of ours?

Let's see.

Coming from far and wide to a Land of Opportunity....

Shaking off the shackles of discrimination and tyrrany from the nations which our ancestors came from....

Which is exactly what these people are doing.

And I welcome them, IF they do it the right way. Register, and pay your taxes.

 

[Squiggy]

oday, as soon as they get here, they want to protest against America, and proudly fly the flag of the country they just escaped. I find it ironic in most of the countries they come from they would never be allowed to protest their government.

Painting with a rather broad brush.

 

[Kail]

oday, as soon as they get here, they want to protest against America, and proudly fly the flag of the country they just escaped. I find it ironic in most of the countries they come from they would never be allowed to protest their government.

Painting with a rather broad brush.

Perhaps, but I can't help but see a lot of that on the news. Huge rally's with thousands protesting American policy.

 

[Squiggy]

You don't see that "a lot" on the news. You see a story or two a year.

When was the last time a rally got any attention? 2005? And even if you have thousands attending a rally what you're not seeing is the MILLIONS who aren't there.

 

[Misfit Toy]

I quote him:

Seeing how the only babies people are worried about seem to be hispanic, it is hard to see people who wish to void their rights as anything but racist.

He is saying that anyone (in this case Kail) who supports proper immigration control is a racist.

No. He is saying "it is hard to see people who wish to void their rights as anything but racist". Kail is identifying himself as someone who wants to void those rights. Davros did not call Kail a racist. If Kail wants to claim that role in the scenario then that's his perogative - but you and he have no grounds to accuse Davros of namecalling.

 

[Rush Limborg]

What's this shared heritage of ours?

Let's see.

Coming from far and wide to a Land of Opportunity....

Shaking off the shackles of discrimination and tyrrany from the nations which our ancestors came from....

Which is exactly what these people are doing.

...while observing and obeying the laws of the land in which they take refuge....

In the olden days, immigrants came in through the New York Harbor, and registered in the complex on Ellis Island. Bang. End of story. Welcome to the USA.

 

[Davros]

Let's see.

Coming from far and wide to a Land of Opportunity....

Shaking off the shackles of discrimination and tyrrany from the nations which our ancestors came from....

Which is exactly what these people are doing.

...while observing and obeying the laws of the land in which they take refuge....

In the olden days, immigrants came in through the New York Harbor, and registered in the complex on Ellis Island. Bang. End of story. Welcome to the USA.

The babies in question broke no laws.

You want in? Become an American, learn the language, learn and accept our heritage, and Pledge Allegiance To The Flag Of The United States Of America.

We don't have an official language, and our heritage includes theirs.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

We don't have an official language

Maybe not technically, but *effectively* we do. It's English. The least they could do is learn to speak it.

 

[Misfit Toy]

In the olden days, immigrants came in through the New York Harbor, and registered in the complex on Ellis Island.

Except for those that, ya know, didn't.

Bang.

 

[sidious618]

In the olden days, immigrants came in through the New York Harbor, and registered in the complex on Ellis Island.

Except for those that, ya know, didn't.

Bang.

It amazes me how people think illegal immigration is something new.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Which brings up another point, illegals are being exploited. If they want to work, they are often forced to work off the books for FAR below minimum wage. We need to seriously crack down on those employing illegals as well.

Not necessarily, I know some who are being paid probably a decent amount more than me. It's more that the work sucks than that it's below the minimum allowed (although they won't get withheld taxes back).

Amen. I do not want to press one for English. Immigrants use to be proud to be Americans, they WANTED to learn English and be REAL Americans. Today, as soon as they get here, they want to protest against America, and proudly fly the flag of the country they just escaped. I find it ironic in most of the countries they come from they would never be allowed to protest their government.

I would say you're making broad generalizations about today, but that would neglect the broad generalizations about the past. Plenty of Italian groups just wanted to make money to send back home. Many had no desire to stay here or learn the language. That's part of the reason why there were neighborhoods of one language - they could live in a society closer to their own and avoid the established society as much as possible.

Today is exactly the same as back then, except the United States more actively encouraged immigration, so it was documented immigration.

And I welcome them, IF they do it the right way. Register, and pay your taxes.

OK, I definitely have to interject on that last point. The vast majority of illegal immigrants pay taxes. In fact, they overpay in taxes, since they would likely qualify to get a tax rebate. However, as they don't file tax returns, they don't get the money back.

 

[Squiggy]

In the olden days, immigrants came in through the New York Harbor, and registered in the complex on Ellis Island.

Except for those that, ya know, didn't.

Bang.

It amazes me how people think illegal immigration is something new.

If we built a sea wall from Maine to Miami we wouldn't have to deal with the Irish scourge. Where's your birth certificate Chester A. Arthur!?!?!

 

[Rush Limborg]

^You have a problem with Irishmen, Toad?

In the olden days, immigrants came in through the New York Harbor, and registered in the complex on Ellis Island.

Except for those that, ya know, didn't.

Bang.

Oh, I know I.I. was a problem then, as now. But to be frank...the numbers were a lot smaller then. And it may have had something to do with the fact that the legal process was a whole lot simpler.