That's why they call it the blues (Paths of Disharmony SPOILERS)

[Therin of Andor]

Is that an actual story or just an cover contest? Just was curious.

As explained at:
http://www.reocities.com/therinofandor/Contest.html

it was a cover art contest we conducted in 2003 after the Psi Phi BBS was weathering a flurry of "anyone could design a better Star Trek cover than the so-called professionals"-type comments, over several months. I came up with a totally mythical novel premise for the contest.

Of course, none of the posters who complained that cover art was "so easy" actually entered. But we knew that would be the case.

 

[LaBarre]

They called the kid WHAT? or I See Dead People is how the P/C world is generally handling the naming of the Picard-Crusher offspring:

Rene Jacques Robert Francois

I have no problem with it, but I'm very much in the minority as far as P/Crs are concerned, where the objections are many but in the end centre about either the ickiness of naming a child after dead people or the perceived cliched laziness of authors using these particular names instead of providing the child with a name all his own, ie. without baggage.

My view (for what it's worth) is that for the vast bulk of the world's population - across cultures - naming a child after a beloved dead person/people is regarded by society as both honourable and appropriate. I don't think that will necessarily change over the centuries ahead.

Is this truly a minority view?

On the cliche/laziness issue, was Dayton Ward requested to use the name already provided in Michael Martin's ST Online: The Needs of the Many, or just found it convenient to adopt it.

From my (far from comprehensive) canon ST knowledge I understand the origin of the various names to be as follows:

Rene - named after Picard's nephew
Robert - named after Picard's brother

I'm assuming that since they've got the whole French thing going that Jacques is for Jack - Beverly's first husband and Picard's best friend.

Which leaves us with Francois.

There's a reference to a Francois Picard in Generations as an ancestor of Jean-Luc (from the 16th century), but I can't recall another mention of a "Francois" or "Francis/Frances" connection with Picard or Beverly otherwise in canon.

Is there one?

BTW, I'm still reading the novel, but I'm impressed by Dayton's writing so far and will post my overall impressions in due course.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There's a reference to a Francois Picard in Generations as an ancestor of Jean-Luc (from the 16th century)

Is there? I don't remember that...

 

[Therin of Andor]

Is there? I don't remember that...

Early publicity releases for TNG mentioned that Picard was "probably descended" from the Picard who was involved in the early history of flight. "Hot air" ballooning.

 

[Arpy]

Thanks for saving me the cost of the book.

Me too. I've been looking forward to these Typhon Pact novels since they were announced, and I bought the first three as they came out, energized about getting back into Treklit after having taken a long break. I have yet to finish the third one but overall, this wasn't the series to return to it with.

The writing is lackluster, the ramifications of the Pact substantially unexplored, and the attacks on the Federation are cheap and pointless. "Wouldn't it be great if we tempted Bashir to play spy and fall to the dark side for a girl? What if the Federation started breaking apart? We can always have both come to their senses later."

Someone in another thread said to give the Typhon Pact more time. More time?! Four novels isn't enough? The next one it'd be in would be out when, next year? Give me a break. Let me know when we get a resolution to the Ascendents storyline too, while you're at it.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I bought this today. I'm glad I got new glasses recently because the print is really small.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

For the record, ProtoAvatar, you can use the quotes feature by typing in a left bracket, followed by the world quote, followed by an equal sign, followed by the name of the user you are quoting, followed by a right bracket. From there, you can enter their quote, and follow it up with a left bracket, followed by a right slash, followed by the world "quote," followed by a right bracket.

So the result would look like this, sans spaces:

"[ quote ]Quotation.[ /quote ]"

For the record, Sci, you look pathetic when the most serious 'counterargument' you can come up with is this one.

Remind me to never, ever apply for a job where you're my boss. You'd be brutal to work for if an assignment ended up not working out properly.

An assignment? You call the missions he failed lately 'assignments'?
If Picard worked for a company, he would be fired the next second after ANY failure of such magnitude. And the company itself would most likely face bankrupcy thanks to Picard.
I already said - saying you 'tried' means nothing when all you can show for yourself are such failures.

Reading comprehension fail. I'm calling an instruction you would theoretically give me in this hypothetical scenario an "assignment," not Starfleet's orders.

Who cares how you call them? That's irrelevant.

It doesn't change my argument - and the situation - in the least if you call them 'Assignments', 'Orders', whatever.

And then the company would shortly go out of business after giving their employees impossible assignments and blaming them for the subsequent loss of revenue.

The federation is well on its way to go 'out of business'. That's why these assignments, orders, etc (call them how you like) suddenly became so "impossible" in the first place.
And if Picard&co can't fulfill them, then the federation will fall - and soon.

And 'Not even competent diplomats/soldiers/etc can fulfill such impossible tasks' will be its epitaph.

 

[Therin of Andor]

the federation will fall - and soon.

Somehow I very much doubt that CBS Consumer Products would permit this, since it would have the effect of turning the whole ST book franchise into original science fiction, not a tie-in. Such a change in status quo would have to come from canonical Trek.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

the federation will fall - and soon.

Somehow I very much doubt that CBS Consumer Products would permit this, since it would have the effect of turning the whole ST book franchise into original science fiction, not a tie-in. Such a change in status quo would have to come from canonical Trek.

True - and that's the ONLY reason the federation will not fall.

Realistically speaking, ANY political entity finding itself in the federation's current state is a political entity in the process of disintegrating.

And, if even diplomats of Picard's famed caliber cannot fulfill their assignments in the least - because they're so 'impossible' -, this disintegration is unstoppable: it has too much momentum, it's an inevitability.

 

[Sci]

Realistically speaking, ANY political entity finding itself in the federation's current state is a political entity in the process of disintegrating.

Would Canada fall apart if Quebec seceded?

Did the Kingdom of Great Britain fall apart when the Thirteen Colonies seceded?

Did the United Kingdom fall apart when most of Ireland seceded?

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Sci

In 'Losing the peace' and ZSG it is directly established that the federation is internally unstable.
In 'PoD' this was spectacularly confirmed when Andor - one of the FOUNDING MEMBERS of the federation (which, within the federation, wielded the power and influence that came with this) - seceded, renouncing all these advantages in favour of leaving the federation.

If Canada would be unstable enough that its lands were seriously contempleting secession, to the point that Quebec would secede, then yes, Sci, Canada would be well on its way of falling apart - of being replaced by who knows what political entities.

About UK still surviving when the Thirteen Colonies or most of Ireland seceded:
You actually think that a federation composed of Earth and 5-10 other species counts as a federation still intact? If so, you have low standards for calling a political entity 'intact'.
As for the other former federation species - they will establish their own political identities, of course. They won't disappear; only the federation will be gone.

 

[Truth]

Sci

In 'Losing the peace' and ZSG it is directly established that the federation is internally unstable.
In 'PoD' this was spectacularly confirmed when Andor - one of the FOUNDING MEMBERS of the federation (which, within the federation, wielded the power and influence that came with this) - seceded, renouncing all these advantages in favour of leaving the federation.

If Canada would be unstable enough that its lands were seriously contempleting secession, to the point that Quebec would secede, then yes, Sci, Canada would be well on its way of falling apart - of being replaced by who knows what political entities.

About UK still surviving when the Thirteen Colonies or most of Ireland seceded:
You actually think that a federation composed of Earth and 5-10 other species counts as a federation still intact? If so, you have low standards for calling a political entity 'intact'.
As for the other former federation species - they will establish their own political identities, of course. They won't disappear; only the federation will be gone.

what did andor bring to the table really? vulcan is the brains and earth is the heart, still dont know what the other brings too the table. and of a allince made of of 155 memebrs , dropping a few memeber here and there does it really change anything.
if anything it sizes maybe whats hurtingthe federation they have taken in more terrotity than they could actually defend, or supply with resources, thats what actually happened to the bitish empire thye could not defend with any real power all the land they held , ameica showed that they had over streched them selfs

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Sci

In 'Losing the peace' and ZSG it is directly established that the federation is internally unstable.
In 'PoD' this was spectacularly confirmed when Andor - one of the FOUNDING MEMBERS of the federation (which, within the federation, wielded the power and influence that came with this) - seceded, renouncing all these advantages in favour of leaving the federation.

If Canada would be unstable enough that its lands were seriously contempleting secession, to the point that Quebec would secede, then yes, Sci, Canada would be well on its way of falling apart - of being replaced by who knows what political entities.

About UK still surviving when the Thirteen Colonies or most of Ireland seceded:
You actually think that a federation composed of Earth and 5-10 other species counts as a federation still intact? If so, you have low standards for calling a political entity 'intact'.
As for the other former federation species - they will establish their own political identities, of course. They won't disappear; only the federation will be gone.

what did andor bring to the table really? vulcan is the brains and earth is the heart, still dont know what the other brings too the table. and of a allince made of of 155 memebrs , dropping a few memeber here and there does it really change anything.
if anything it sizes maybe whats hurtingthe federation they have taken in more terrotity than they could actually defend, or supply with resources, thats what actually happened to the bitish empire thye could not defend with any real power all the land they held , ameica showed that they had over streched them selfs

Don't count Vulcan as 'in' in the long run just yet, Truth:

In Titan;'Taking wing', is is directly stated that only a small majority was against vulcan-romulan unification - meaning a large minority was all for it.
And that was when all was right in the federation, BEFORE Vulcan was half vaporised because two Earth-born human starfleet captains (Picard and Janeway) annoyed the borg enough that it came to sterilise the entire alpha/beta quadrants.

In 'RBoE', Spock's unification movement receives a major boost - now it's able to expand in the open.
Also in RBoE, Spock directly says that one of the ways he envisions vulcan-romulan reunification is the vulcans leaving the federation and uniting with the romulans- and he has no problem with such an outcome.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Don't count Vulcan as 'in' in the long run just yet.

"Spock's World".

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Don't count Vulcan as 'in' in the long run just yet.

"Spock's World".

Old news. Also - it's doubtful that it's part of current continuity.

More recent news:

"Don't count Vulcan as 'in' in the long run just yet, Truth:

In Titan;'Taking wing', is is directly stated that only a small majority was against vulcan-romulan unification - meaning a large minority was all for it.
And that was when all was right in the federation, BEFORE Vulcan was half vaporised because two Earth-born human starfleet captains (Picard and Janeway) annoyed the borg enough that it came to sterilise the entire alpha/beta quadrants.

In 'RBoE', Spock's unification movement receives a major boost - now it's able to expand in the open.
Also in RBoE, Spock directly says that one of the ways he envisions vulcan-romulan reunification is the vulcans leaving the federation and uniting with the romulans- and he has no problem with such an outcome."

Notice the highlighted part.

 

[Ronald Held]

No book at my Border's or I ordered it from Amazon. maybe I will get to start reading it by the weekend.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Also in RBoE, Spock directly says that one of the ways he envisions vulcan-romulan reunification is the vulcans leaving the federation and uniting with the romulans- and he has no problem with such an outcome."

Future news:

Sure. And it would seem that reunification has not yet occurred by the time Spock is whisked into the past by JJ Abram's movie. Romulus is slated to be wiped out by a supernova, and only offworld Romulans will be left. And it seems that Ambassador Spock has no way to return.

 

[Jakks]

N/M

 

[BillJ]

Also in RBoE, Spock directly says that one of the ways he envisions vulcan-romulan reunification is the vulcans leaving the federation and uniting with the romulans- and he has no problem with such an outcome."

Future news:

Sure. And it would seem that reunification has not yet occurred by the time Spock is whisked into the past by JJ Abram's movie. Romulus is slated to be wiped out by a supernova, and only offworld Romulans will be left. And it seems that Ambassador Spock has no way to return.

The movie gives no hint one way or the other about the state of Vulcan-Romulan reunification. One could surmise that since it is a Vulcan craft and not a Federation craft that was sent to help Romulus, that the Federation and Vulcans may not be part of the same political unit in 2387.

 

[Sci]

Sci

In 'Losing the peace' and ZSG it is directly established that the federation is internally unstable.

Sort-of. You're overstating it. Losing the Peace established that the refugee crisis was threatening to create instability, but they solved both the refugee crisis and the Alpha Centauri secession threat in that same novel. The only hint of internal instability in ZSG is a little bit of foreshadowing to PoD.

If Canada would be unstable enough that its lands were seriously contempleting secession, to the point that Quebec would secede,

Quebec has been seriously contemplating secession for decades, to the point of there being several referendums on Quebec's continued membership in Canada.

About UK still surviving when the Thirteen Colonies or most of Ireland seceded:
You actually think that a federation composed of Earth and 5-10 other species counts as a federation still intact?

No. I think that a Federation composed of Earth and over one hundred other worlds counts as a Federation still intact. Remember, the Federation had just added its 155th Member right before the Borg Invasion. Even if we assume that the Borg destroyed 30 Members, that still leaves 120 Members -- 119 after Andor's secession.

The Federation has lost Members before. Cait, notably, keeps seceding and rejoining. It's certainly fair to say that Andor's secession is a serious blow to the UFP, but that doesn't make it a fatal blow.

ETA:

Don't count Vulcan as 'in' in the long run just yet, Truth:

In Titan;'Taking wing', is is directly stated that only a small majority was against vulcan-romulan unification - meaning a large minority was all for it.

You're overstating your case. That a plurality opposes something does not mean a large minority is for it. It's entirely possible for the remainder of people to be divided between people who are for something and people who are apathetic or undecided. Also, you're forgetting a crucial element of any attempt to gauge public opinion: How strongly do the polled individuals feel about the topic at hand? Someone can be "for" something yet never think of it as a strong enough priority to exert effort for it.

In 'RBoE', Spock's unification movement receives a major boost - now it's able to expand in the open.
Also in RBoE, Spock directly says that one of the ways he envisions vulcan-romulan reunification is the vulcans leaving the federation and uniting with the romulans- and he has no problem with such an outcome.

You are, again, over-stating your case. You are, after all, talking about the eminently logical Mister Spock, who can speak in perfect serenity about his own imminent death when discussing a given situation's potential outcomes. Spock, being the frank person that he is, simply answers the question of how Vulcan and Romulus might reunite by listing a number of possible scenarios. That he includes a one scenario -- that one of the ways in which Vulcan might reunite with Romulus is through secession from the Federation -- in such a way indicates anything about what he actually advocates about the future of Vulcan's status within the Federation.

But you know what does tell us what he thinks about Vulcan membership in the Federation? The fact that, when he thinks the Romulans may pose a danger to their neighbors, he contacts the Federation President rather than the Vulcan First Minister.