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That South African He/She runner
- Thread starter broberfett
- Start date
TheLonelySquire
Vice Admiral
Because he has testes.
I swear I heard this morning that she's got some ovaries too and I think I heard the word vagina. And there was my 11yr old nephew eating waffles at the kitchen table.
The IAAF said upfront she could keep her medals. Nobody is going to take them away. She probably has to make a decision whether to have the unwanted organs removed in order to be able to compete in the future, although I suspect this cannot be enforced. This condition, if indeed that's what it is, is so rare I expect nobody has reached international athletic level before.
It looks like the actual results still haven't been released, officially. The IAAF has indicated that, no matter the results of the test, they do not plan to strip her of her medal.
However, the results have yet to be released and the IAAF will not confirm or deny the original story, which has been reprinted all over the place.
However, the results have yet to be released and the IAAF will not confirm or deny the original story, which has been reprinted all over the place.
It's most unfortunate any of this got into the open before the results anyway. It would never have happened in a doping investigation. Because of the prurience of the press and the lowest common denominator of human behaviour, this poor woman is insulted by pillocks on a messageboard, very few of whom have much experience of sex aside from yanking off in their bedrooms.
This is might prove to be an almost impossible case to resolve to everyone's satisfaction, as s/he does not fall comfortably into either sex. Even if his/her chromosomes prove to be male, certain hormones might show him/her to be female on a hormonal level. What a headache. I wouldn't want to be one of the officials who has to make a decision like this.
I think they may in future have to resort to allowing inter-sexed individuals to choose which sex they want to compete with... it could be argued inter-sexed individuals are both sexes and also neither at the same time. What the hell do you do with that? It would be ridiculous to have inter-sexed athletics, as there wouldn't be enough athletes to make up a decent competition. Let them choose and be done with it. It's not like this would happen every year. As far as I can tell from the papers, this has never happened before, all other similar cases were planned deception, rather than instances of a genuine inter-sexed person.
Inter-sexed individuals have just as much right as anyone else to compete in the highest field of competition if they have the talent. This is something that happens in nature, and all sports in fact need to have clear guidelines for this. It's disgraceful these were not already in place. And now they're flaffing about while this poor girl/boy is gawked at by the world, waiting for a decision. Very sad.
I think they may in future have to resort to allowing inter-sexed individuals to choose which sex they want to compete with... it could be argued inter-sexed individuals are both sexes and also neither at the same time. What the hell do you do with that? It would be ridiculous to have inter-sexed athletics, as there wouldn't be enough athletes to make up a decent competition. Let them choose and be done with it. It's not like this would happen every year. As far as I can tell from the papers, this has never happened before, all other similar cases were planned deception, rather than instances of a genuine inter-sexed person.
Inter-sexed individuals have just as much right as anyone else to compete in the highest field of competition if they have the talent. This is something that happens in nature, and all sports in fact need to have clear guidelines for this. It's disgraceful these were not already in place. And now they're flaffing about while this poor girl/boy is gawked at by the world, waiting for a decision. Very sad.
Wait a minute...on GMA they said the offical results "were in"...??!! Is that not true? You mean to tell me a news outlet is wrong...I. just. can't. belive that!
By denying her the grace to be a woman, An Officer, you're doing just as much harm as all the other gawkers.
Cakes488 said:
I didn't hear the GMA story, Cakes (you poor naive dear
) but GMA was probably quoting some other news outlet saying the results were "in," and that news outlet was probably quoting another one that said the results were "in," and so on, and thus the goes the merry-go-round in the newz biz.Earlier I described it as "incestuous," which it is. But another description might be "masterbatory," since they all kind of get off on each other.
Edit: Euw. I've grossed myself out. It's true, though.
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Amaris
Guest
Are the papers discussing this? What an awful suggestion. If the organs are not doing any harm, why on earth should this person face an invasive operation to take out something no one can see, which has always been there, and doesn't seem to have caused him/her any harm for 18 years? Even if the testicles were visible, so what! He/she is a third sex. Never has been and probably never will be male nor female.
Since he/she didn't know about the inter-sex issue, more than likely, he/she will have some thinking to do. Probably an entire shift of identity. Even if this athlete chooses to continue living as a female, the fact of the matter is, she is part of a small third sex community. She may or may not accept that. The truth probably is that life will be easier if he/she does choose to live as either male or female. Most of the modern world is still very uncomfortable with the idea of a third sex.
I find modern culture so barbaric on some levels, the third sex has been very much accepted and respected in previous cultures, and today, we want to put people in one of two boxes... well, it seems there are three! Some Native American tribes for example, accepted the notion of a third sex, and such individuals were often leaders of the community, seen has having insights not possessed by the average person. Just because something is rare, doesn't mean it should be snuffed out.
The results are "in" but they aren't "out," if you know what I mean. They have not been publicly released, but the IAAF does have them.
Just wait till people start genetically engineering children for optimum athletic performance. THAT will be the end of the Olympics and all "fair, non-profit-motivated" sports since the winners will always be the ones with the most money.
Pro sports will continue since people will happily watch the Battle of the Genetic Freaks, whether it's ping-pong or cage fighting.
Pro sports will continue since people will happily watch the Battle of the Genetic Freaks, whether it's ping-pong or cage fighting.
This whole situation is fucking hilarious, particularly as people attempt to define whether this individual is "male" or "female."
Gender and sex aren't something that is defined by any one given factor. There's simply too many exceptions to any one given rule. Is gender defined by genetics? There's enough screwed up chromosome combinations to make that sketchy, let alone various genes that influence physiology and hormone levels. Is it cultural? Well, cultures sometimes even define more than one gender. is it physiological? There's the intersex issue, but also the evidence that male to female transsexuality is something resembling brain intersex.
I love these discussions, I guess. It's amusing to watch people tryo to define biology and culture along lines in which neither fit.
For me, it's easy. You say "female" on your birth certificate, you live as a woman? I don't care if you have testicles in your belly, you're a woman as far as I care.
It almost seems like there are some here who'd keep her from competing at all because she may not neatly fit into one of the "right" categories.
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Amaris
Guest
For me, I'm just making the point that his "he has testes" line is easily countered with a "she has a vagina" statement. In other words, he still has nothing to stand on in proving her gender. You should know that outer appearances involving biology does not determine my own opinions on such things by now.
J.
Nature doesn't sort people into discrete categories. There are always beings which exist in the grey areas. For events like competitive sports, humans create artificial boundaries to pre-sort people into competing classes. There are inevitably going to be difficult cases with people who are in those grey areas.
Considering Semenya's case, it is really a case of what are the rules. And those rules can be defined as arbitrarily as the officials want them to be. After all, they are defining artificial boundaries.
However a person is categorized by those rules, is not a reflection of the person's identity. It should not to be taken personally; for it is simply part of the rules of the game they choose to play.
If s/he doesn't like the rules of the game, then s/he doesn't have to play the game.
Considering Semenya's case, it is really a case of what are the rules. And those rules can be defined as arbitrarily as the officials want them to be. After all, they are defining artificial boundaries.
However a person is categorized by those rules, is not a reflection of the person's identity. It should not to be taken personally; for it is simply part of the rules of the game they choose to play.
If s/he doesn't like the rules of the game, then s/he doesn't have to play the game.
TheLonelySquire
Vice Admiral
Next? lol....
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