Terminator: Salvation Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

[Harvey]

TS pacing was just about perfect, the characters were spot on, there was lots of good action. It doesn't have any real flaws as far as I'm concerned.

Connor's wife is so thinly characterized, her pregnancy isn't even a plot point. Connor's followers, outside of Blair Williams (Moon Bloodgood), are ciphers, and their fanatical devotion to John Connor is barely explored. Speaking of John Connor, his screen time is so limited that he is allowed to do little more than bark orders we've already seen in the trailer--despite top billing, he is far from the lead of the film.

As far as pacing goes, the entire film feels rushed, unable to breathe between action set pieces. Not surprising, since 30 minutes were culled from the film at the studio's insistence, and I'm willing to bet twenty bucks it wasn't action the studio was gutting. When I first saw the film, I had only thought that the film had been edited to reduce the sex and violence to PG-13, but after viewing it, the exclusion of other scenes was painfully evident. But we can agree to disagree when it comes to the pacing.

Eflman's score is rather uninspired, and it ignores Brad Fiedel's theme entirely (outside of the occasional drum pattern).

Let's not even get into the uninspired plot points where Skynet captures Kyle Reese, but inexplicably avoids killing him, and later fails to kill Connor in the very heart of Skynet Central. Connor survives a heart transplant from Marcus and seems to make a full recovery.

That said, I'm not about to entirely trash the film. Most of the performances are fine, even though only a few characters are fully developed. Linda Connor's voice overs are a welcome addition. The cinematography and visual effects are top notch--even the liberal aping of other films (The Great Escape, Apocalypse Now, Blade Runner)is done with a soft touch. The action set pieces are all pretty clever. And Arnold's cameo in the end comes at exactly the right moment.

Decent? Sure. "Just about a masterpiece?" Not by a long shot.

Not that Star Trek wasn't rife full of flaws. But at least we understood Kirk and Spock's motivations, and how the other characters related to them.

 

[StarTrek1701]

Star Trek is a pile of shit with plot holes and idiocies in just about every scene, while Terminator Salvation is just about a masterpiece.

TS pacing was just about perfect, the characters were spot on, there was lots of good action. It doesn't have any real flaws as far as I'm concerned.

Whatever you are smoking, we all want some.

 

[nx1701g]

A bit more about the proposed Terminator 5: The Arnold Fans is reporting today that McG is negotiating with Linda Hamilton to return as Sarah Connor - who has survived until 2011 (retconning her death in 1997 as revealed by T3).

Is anyone else getting a very serious Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles vibe by all this? Judgment Day in 2011, Sarah is still alive having faked her death...

 

[3D Master]

TS pacing was just about perfect, the characters were spot on, there was lots of good action. It doesn't have any real flaws as far as I'm concerned.

Connor's wife is so thinly characterized, her pregnancy isn't even a plot point.

Which doesn't matter, it's not important.

Connor's followers, outside of Blair Williams (Moon Bloodgood), are ciphers, and their fanatical devotion to John Connor is barely explored.

Which doesn't matter, they're not important. They're just there to shoot Terminators.

Speaking of John Connor, his screen time is so limited that he is allowed to do little more than bark orders we've already seen in the trailer--despite top billing, he is far from the lead of the film.

Maybe he could have had more screen time, but the movie worked.

As far as pacing goes, the entire film feels rushed, unable to breathe between action set pieces. Not surprising, since 30 minutes were culled from the film at the studio's insistence, and I'm willing to bet twenty bucks it wasn't action the studio was gutting. When I first saw the film, I had only thought that the film had been edited to reduce the sex and violence to PG-13, but after viewing it, the exclusion of other scenes was painfully evident. But we can agree to disagree when it comes to the pacing.

In comparison to Star Trek, it's positively slow and does nothing but breathe.

Eflman's score is rather uninspired, and it ignores Brad Fiedel's theme entirely (outside of the occasional drum pattern).

As opposed to T3, where it was only used in the end credits. The thing is; good music is unobtrusive, yet manages to make the scenes and the movie, inducing in you the emotions of the scene. That's exactly what it did.

Let's not even get into the uninspired plot points where Skynet captures Kyle Reese, but inexplicably avoids killing him,

Why the hell would it kill Kyle Reese? If time doesn't work like in Back to the Future, immediately erasing John Connor from history, just fading into nothing where he stands, and he actually continues existing; then the bait is dead, and there's no reason for John Connor to walk into the trap.

and later fails to kill Connor in the very heart of Skynet Central.

Of course it fails to kill John Connor. You did notice that whole bit of Marcus destroying the Skynet core, and then protecting John Connor did you? The moment Marcus smashed Skynet it no longer had any control of this node. The machines had to do things on their own, without direction by Skynet and security cameras.

Connor survives a heart transplant from Marcus and seems to make a full recovery.

And?

That was in fact, a great scene, especially with Marcus sacrificing his own life for John.

Not that Star Trek wasn't rife full of flaws. But at least we understood Kirk and Spock's motivations, and how the other characters related to them.

Except that the motivations are those of a three-year-old a-hole and a total moron.

Whatever little flaws there are in TS, they are but a drop in the ocean of flaws that were in Star Trek.

 

[archeryguy1701]

The story in TS is easily 'as deep' and 'as fleshed' out as Star Trek which everyone seems to(biasly?) love. Dismiss the need for deep explanations about "Red Matter" but critcize how Skynet knows of Kyle Reese. Simply buy that Nero sat around in space for 25 years waiting on Spock and bash why Marcus doesn't seem more upset at the surroundings he has awoke to. By and large accept the discrepancies in ship designs for George Kirks era ships(which is before any deviation should occur) and question every mechanical aspect of Salvation.

PEOPLE who praise Trek are hounding Salvation...unfairly. Lack of consistency by thes types makes my stomach turn.

The difference for me was that Trek kept me far more entertaining than TS did. Movies can have the exact same issues, but if one is presented in a less entertaining manner, then those issues are harder to overlook. Not saying Salvation was bad, but I just couldn't get into it and enjoy it a whole lot.

 

[Captain Craig]

A bit more about the proposed Terminator 5: The Arnold Fans is reporting today that McG is negotiating with Linda Hamilton to return as Sarah Connor - who has survived until 2011 (retconning her death in 1997 as revealed by T3).

Is anyone else getting a very serious Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles vibe by all this? Judgment Day in 2011, Sarah is still alive having faked her death...

This is just a bad idea. He'll essentially retcon out his own movie as well.
Also, personally, I'm over trying to stop JD...again. Its a done element now that Salvation has come to be. The TV Show is its own pocket universe and should remain that way. Simply because it was cancelled, obviously few cared about it so there is NO reason to relate those show elements into the cinema 'verse.

I wonder what The Arnold Fans are using as their source to report this?

 

[Harvey]

Not that Star Trek wasn't rife full of flaws. But at least we understood Kirk and Spock's motivations, and how the other characters related to them.

Except that the motivations are those of a three-year-old a-hole and a total moron.

Whatever little flaws there are in TS, they are but a drop in the ocean of flaws that were in Star Trek.

Doesn't seem worth it to argue with you. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Brent]

I liked this movie a lot, I've seen it twice now, and it was better on the second viewing. I grade it Excellent, and I can't wait for another.

 

[Starkers]

I gave this a below average, and to be honest I think I was being generous. I can forgive films most anything, but the one thing I won't forgive is making a film dull. Seriously the film was just one long explosion but I don't think my pulse raced once. I was so dismayed I came home and slapped T2 in to make myself feel better (thankfully it worked) I haven't trawled through the entire thread, but I can't beleive people really liked this. Ok, worthington was good, but everyone else...heck even Bale couldn't seem to be bothered. Still, if nothing else this is a reminder of how shit Hollywood could have made Star Trek, thank god for JJ, and as for Mcg?

Hasta la vista baby...

 

[Servo]

I too enjoyed T:S somewhat more than Star Trek

Really? Because with the way you've been banging on about your problems with Trek '09 in almost every post you've made in a TERMINATOR thread, I'd never have guessed.

One thing about the movie I didn't understand; how did Skynet know that Kyle Reese, a teenage nobody, was important? Did the Terminatrix connect with Past-Skynet in T3 and give it all the information it would need on the future war and Connor or something? I don't recall the movie that well.

I believe the original version of the script had Skynet not knowing the importance of Kyle Reese.

My only real issue with the Reese part of the story was why Skynet even bothered to put him in a holding cell. If he was such a high priority target, and Skynet truly thought that killing him would negate Connor's existance, why wasn't he killed the second he was identified at Skynet HQ?

Apologies if this has already been addressed, but I got bored after reading the first 17 pages of this thread, and feared my own sanity would be at risk if I continued reading.

Overall, I enjoyed the film. It kept me entertained for the duration, which is really all I expect from a movie about killer robots in the future. You can squabble all you like about plotholes, inconsistencies, logic leaps, and the director's nickname if that's what gets you hard, but at the end of the day IT'S A MOVIE ABOUT KILLER ROBOTS FROM THE FUTURE. Get over it.

 

[archeryguy1701]

This isn't really a Salvation question, but since this should be an open and shut Q&A, I figure this is as good of a place to ask this as any...

I bought the first 3 Terminators partly to see if it would help me appreciate Salvation more and partly because I've been told the first 2 are pretty close to being sci-fi classics. I just got done with the second movie and have a question: was there an explination that I missed about why Connor sent a Terminator back in time to save himself? That was a move just bizarre enough that it would seem like an reason would have been given, but I can't remember hearing one.

 

[Servo]

This isn't really a Salvation question, but since this should be an open and shut Q&A, I figure this is as good of a place to ask this as any...

I bought the first 3 Terminators partly to see if it would help me appreciate Salvation more and partly because I've been told the first 2 are pretty close to being sci-fi classics. I just got done with the second movie and have a question: was there an explination that I missed about why Connor sent a Terminator back in time to save himself? That was a move just bizarre enough that it would seem like an reason would have been given, but I can't remember hearing one.

Send a Terminator to stop a Terminator. Seems like sound logic to me. As an aside, I know that if I were John Connor, I'd be chuckling to myself about the inherant irony of the plan, too.

 

[nx1701g]

Connor knew that the T-1000 was one of Skynet's most advanced infiltrators (so much so that Skynet actually feared the T-1000 would eventually become more powerful than it and turn against it - as shown in TSCC). A human would have no chance of destroying it with 20th Century materials and a T-800 would have more of a chance of surviving or at least doing some damage to it to maybe allow Connor to escape.

 

[Servo]

(so much so that Skynet actually feared the T-1000 would eventually become more powerful than it and turn against it - as shown in TSCC).

I did not know that. Man, I really should get around to watching TSCC sometime.

 

[nx1701g]

(so much so that Skynet actually feared the T-1000 would eventually become more powerful than it and turn against it - as shown in TSCC).

I did not know that. Man, I really should get around to watching TSCC sometime.

The T-1000 being considered a threat actually came from notes by Jim Cameron when designing the character. The producers and writers of TSCC really ran with it and created a pretty impressive character. I won't lie it's sort of like a rollercoaster though. You have edge of your seat episodes, but then you hit a bottom and it can be a little boring. The ending of the series though... well you won't expect what they do.

 

[Servo]

(so much so that Skynet actually feared the T-1000 would eventually become more powerful than it and turn against it - as shown in TSCC).

I did not know that. Man, I really should get around to watching TSCC sometime.

The T-1000 being considered a threat actually came from notes by Jim Cameron when designing the character. The producers and writers of TSCC really ran with it and created a pretty impressive character. I won't lie it's sort of like a rollercoaster though. You have edge of your seat episodes, but then you hit a bottom and it can be a little boring. The ending of the series though... well you won't expect what they do.

Sounds like an interesting direction. I'll have to see if I can squeeze it in over the summer while there's nowt else on.

 

[Yoda]

Star Trek is a pile of shit with plot holes and idiocies in just about every scene, while Terminator Salvation is just about a masterpiece.

TS pacing was just about perfect, the characters were spot on, there was lots of good action. It doesn't have any real flaws as far as I'm concerned.

Star Trek is shit, Battlestar Galactica was shit, but Terminator: Salvation was just about perfect?

You, sir, are the king of trolls.

 

[3D Master]

One thing about the movie I didn't understand; how did Skynet know that Kyle Reese, a teenage nobody, was important? Did the Terminatrix connect with Past-Skynet in T3 and give it all the information it would need on the future war and Connor or something? I don't recall the movie that well.

I believe the original version of the script had Skynet not knowing the importance of Kyle Reese.

My only real issue with the Reese part of the story was why Skynet even bothered to put him in a holding cell. If he was such a high priority target, and Skynet truly thought that killing him would negate Connor's existance, why wasn't he killed the second he was identified at Skynet HQ?

Apologies if this has already been addressed, but I got bored after reading the first 17 pages of this thread, and feared my own sanity would be at risk if I continued reading.

I addressed it: Reese wasn't a high priority target because he needed to die, he was a high priority target because he was bait.

Star Trek is a pile of shit with plot holes and idiocies in just about every scene, while Terminator Salvation is just about a masterpiece.

TS pacing was just about perfect, the characters were spot on, there was lots of good action. It doesn't have any real flaws as far as I'm concerned.

Star Trek is shit, Battlestar Galactica was shit, but Terminator: Salvation was just about perfect?

You, sir, are the king of trolls.

Of course, because anyone who has contrary opinion to your own, especially those supported by sound arguments is a troll.

 

[Yoda]

Star Trek is a pile of shit with plot holes and idiocies in just about every scene, while Terminator Salvation is just about a masterpiece.

TS pacing was just about perfect, the characters were spot on, there was lots of good action. It doesn't have any real flaws as far as I'm concerned.

Star Trek is shit, Battlestar Galactica was shit, but Terminator: Salvation was just about perfect?

You, sir, are the king of trolls.

Of course, because anyone who has contrary opinion to your own, especially those supported by sound arguments is a troll.

Oh come on, nobody can seriously look at Terminator: Salvation and see 'near perfection'. Not even the Dutch!

 

[nx1701g]

I did not know that. Man, I really should get around to watching TSCC sometime.

The T-1000 being considered a threat actually came from notes by Jim Cameron when designing the character. The producers and writers of TSCC really ran with it and created a pretty impressive character. I won't lie it's sort of like a rollercoaster though. You have edge of your seat episodes, but then you hit a bottom and it can be a little boring. The ending of the series though... well you won't expect what they do.

Sounds like an interesting direction. I'll have to see if I can squeeze it in over the summer while there's nowt else on.

I recommend it. If you can though try to watch it from the beginning.