Terminator: Salvation Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

[T'Baio]

Man, reading that link it sounds like the movie we didn't get would've been far, far, superior if "McG" wasn't a great-big idiot hack.

Dude, that was the story McG wanted.

But then he pursued Bale for Marcus, Bale said he was interested, but wanted to be Connor and have rewrites. Then they all freaked out about the internet reaction to the ending being leaked, and decided to change it even more.

McG may be spineless, stars struck and/or too willing to bend, but it's not entirely his fault. They should have told Bale this was the story they had, and if he didn't like it or didn't want to play Marcus, they'd find someone else. Unfortunately, everyone had Dark Knight Fever.

We'll never know if the "do anything to get Bale" attitude, the bending over backwards for him and the eventual change in everything due to the story leaking is more McG or more studio executives. I don't think McG gets final cut. I swear if he chose to credit himself "Joseph McGinty Nichols," no one would blame him at all. Get over the moniker...it doesn't make him an idiot.

 

[T'Baio]

I'm just ROFL at you people you seriously believe T2 is this great piece of scripted plot driven action movie.
T2 & T3(until the last 10min) are the SAME FREAKING movie as T1. THE SAME.

Actually, T2 is not.

The Terminator was about a T-800 going after Sarah Connor and trying to kill her, and Kyle finding her and protecting her.

T2 was initially about that, but had far more hooks. The depth of Sarah's character arc, from where she was in that film to where she is in T2, the asylum, is terrifying. And there's John in the mix. But you can still make the argument it's about one Terminator finding Sarah and/or John to kill, and one character who happens to also be a Terminator to protect them. Few extra hooks, but essentially the same story.

Where T2 diverges, and it is sort of the surprise of the film in the sense that it is like "HA! You thought it was gonna' be more of the same, but now we're gonna' throw something a little different at ya'!", is where Sarah decides to find Miles Dyson and destroy him and everything he works for in an attempt to destroy SkyNet. This is the heart of the movie, and where it takes a drastic diversion from the original. Sarah, who we're already shocked at who she's become, becomes a machine, a Terminator and tries to kill Dyson. Long story short, she realizes her error and regains her humanity. Her mercy and her choice and her pain and her sacrifice is what makes her human, and she regains that. This diversion makes T2 far different than Terminator, and is what gives the first two films their weight. Fuck John Connor. It's Sarah that the saviour of humanity, and her character arc is heartbreaking.

It was T3 which simply note for note copies T2. And not only was it virtually a carbon copy with very little divergence in its plot lines, character arcs and themes, it was done poorly.

You edit out the rest of my statement so you can try to nitpick the slight differences.

You make it sound like I changed your context, or something. I left the rest out because it wasn't pertinent to the point. But I'll leave the entire quote in this post just for you, and the sake of cluttering up an already long thread.

I said send two back and you want to differentiate it as one human/one 'nator.
Then you, and apparently others, think the nuance of Sarah going after Myles is this great piece of character exposition. She's trying to do what the whole series is about. CHANGE THE FUTURE. WOW, she adds a third avenue beyond killing A Connor by going after Dyson.
The third movie continues this third leg by having Captain Brewster as a target instead of Dyson this time. Again the Connors are now 2nd targets.

You claimed T1, T2 and T3 are exactly the same plot, but now you admit they've added a "third avenue." That makes the plot different. You also contextualize what happens in T3 as "again." So you see how T2 and T3 are different from T1. Good, glad we agree.

As for you not thinking Sarah's mission in T2 is a great piece of character exposition? Fine. Good for you...most people do. As for you not realizing that T3 is the same as T2 (which you admit), but a very bad version. Fine. You like what I think are crappy movies. Great. Glad that's settled.

This ideal that T2 is some Citizen Kane of Sci-Fi. The concept that T2 is this Lawrence of Arabia of Apocolyptic Human/Robot struggle makes me wonder about some of that tastes you folks have.

No one has made that exaggeration but you. But then again, in terms of the "Apocolyptic (*sic) Human/Robot struggle" genre, I would assume T2 is one of the best of those 12 films.

Then to read that out of spite or sincerity(not sure which cause sarcasm doesn't translate well in text) you think Reign of Fire is good? Better than T4?

Credibility blown.

You think T4 is better than Reign of Fire!?!

Credibility blown.

See what I did there?

I know this next thought will get edited out cause it won't help ones cause when responding yet I'll say it anyway so I can say I said it...

Does that make me a liar?

 

[Trekker4747]

Get over the moniker...it doesn't make him an idiot.

Yes.

Yes it does.

Granted, not the only reason, but *A* reason.

Unless you're a 20-something black rapster you shouldn't a)give yourself a nickname b)such a nickname.

His hard-on to get Bale and do anything TO get/have him was one of many things that may have hurt what this movie could've been. Though I agree studio pressure(s) likely played a large role too.

But anyone who names himself "McG", directed the Charlie's Angles abortions and almost made a friggin' Hot Wheels movie is deserving of scorn and riddicule.

 

[T'Baio]

First, he didn't name himself. You don't even know what you're talking about, Trekker4747. It was a nickname given to him and used since childhood. It's the name he's gone by his whole life, long before anyone knew about rappers. What's the big deal? Why am I even discussing this?

Second;

Movie Executive - "Hey, Trekker4747, you're good at fast paced, colourful action, and you love racing. You wanna' develop a movie for us using the Hot Wheels brand name? With development, script and directing fees, we'll offer you $12million."

Trekker4747 - "No, that sounds silly."

Now who's the idiot?

 

[Trekker4747]

Wel, it's still a silly nickname.

And a "script" for a Hot Wheels movie?

I laugh mightily.

How do you make a script around a set of toys that are nothing more than cars?

But, ok, yeah I'd probably take the money and make the movie. And I bet I'd do a lot better job than Mr. "McG" would.

 

[T'Baio]

I don't know...develop it until it turns into a TV show called "Fastlane?"

 

[Captain Craig]

You claimed T1, T2 and T3 are exactly the same plot, but now you admit they've added a "third avenue." That makes the plot different. You also contextualize what happens in T3 as "again." So you see how T2 and T3 are different from T1. Good, glad we agree.

The CORE of the movies is the same. CHANGE THE FUTURE. Your being overly nuanced for the sake of what, just to argue?

As for you not thinking Sarah's mission in T2 is a great piece of character exposition? Fine. Good for you...most people do. As for you not realizing that T3 is the same as T2 (which you admit), but a very bad version. Fine. You like what I think are crappy movies. Great. Glad that's settled.

I said I liked the movie. Way to much is being placed on that angle is all I'm saying.

No one has made that exaggeration but you. But then again, in terms of the "Apocolyptic Human/Robot struggle" genre, I would assume T2 is one of the best of those 12 films.

I just placed a context to the attitude(s) being displayed.

Then to read that out of spite or sincerity(not sure which cause sarcasm doesn't translate well in text) you think Reign of Fire is good? Better than T4?

Credibility blown.

You think T4 is better than Reign of Fire!?!

Credibility blown.

See what I did there?

Then you like what I consider to be crappy movies. Great. Glad that's settled. See what I did there.

T4 is a fine enough movie. I wouldn't pretend its Citizen Kane either but I guess in a few weeks I'm going to have to read about how Transformers 2 ruined the franchise cause the 1st was such a great masterpiece, right?

 

[Trekker4747]

The CORE of the movies is the same. CHANGE THE FUTURE.

The CORE of all action movies is the same. TO STOP THE BAD GUY!

Brilliant! All movies are the same!



You're being obtuse.

You've got to look at the movies much broader than "to change the future."

You do that and you'll see that all four movies are pretty damn different.

 

[Captain Craig]

The CORE of the movies is the same. CHANGE THE FUTURE.

The CORE of all action movies is the same. TO STOP THE BAD GUY!

Brilliant! All movies are the same!



You're being obtuse.

You've got to look at the movies much broader than "to change the future."

You do that and you'll see that all four movies are pretty damn different.

Right, I'm the obtuse one.
I've seen T1-T3 countless times. They aren't that deep or broad. You know why? Cause they are action movies, not heartfelt dramas. You know why they never competed for Best Actor or Best Picture? Cause they aren't that broad and deep.

You people are over assigning a sense of depth to T2 that is not there at the level your insisting it is.

But hey I don't agree so I must be the obtuse one not possible at all its the other way around.

 

[Hunter X]

Wel, it's still a silly nickname.

And a "script" for a Hot Wheels movie?

I laugh mightily.

How do you make a script around a set of toys that are nothing more than cars?

You add the twist that they can turn into giant robots?

Oh wait...

 

[Roberto]

I really enjoyed this movie waaaaay more than Star Trek....the story, acting and FX were far superior.

Speaks. Much.

Yes. True.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I you liked T4, I am sure you would like this very underrated movie that stars

Matthew McConaughey
Christian Bale
Izabella Scorupco
Gerard Butler

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=reignoffire.htm

It's like Bale versus Dragons instead of the terminators.

You forgot that Alexander Siddig is also in it!

Agreed with T'Baio that, implausible dragon biology aside, Reign of Fire is far superior to Terminator Salvation.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

CHUD.com has a very fascinating article about Terminator Salvation, discussing in some detail how the script radically changed during production.

I liked the movie overall, but I would have liked to see more of the original script. (Basically Christian Bale was originally cast as Marcus, and the whole movie was going to center around Marcus journey with Reese, not meeting John Connor until the very end...)

A very interesting read, no matter what you thought of the movie.

Very interesting. It certainly sounds like the 1st half of the movie works a lot better by focusing on the Marcus Wright/Kyle Reese relationship and keeping John Connor off screen. It also makes more sense if Skynet has no idea who Kyle Reese is. But Project Angel and the brief time travel make the 2nd half sound like an even greater clusterfuck than what we got.

I'm still pretty ambivalent on the alternate ending where John Connor's face is grafted onto Marcus Wright's body.

Frankly, Terminator Salvation just wasn't the future war movie I wanted to see regardless. I wanted to see something bleaker, and closer to around the late 2020s. You know all the flashback scenes in the 1st 3 films? Just do that!

 

[nx1701g]

I don't think that anyone could have truly been happy with the Future War scenes. Think about it for over 20 years - since the first Terminator film - people have been imagining what the Future War would be. I don't think that it was possible to really please most people.

Interestingly on Jay Leno this evening Arnold said his daughter said it was the "Best Terminator film she's seen."

 

[DarKush]

I don't think that anyone could have truly been happy with the Future War scenes. Think about it for over 20 years - since the first Terminator film - people have been imagining what the Future War would be. I don't think that it was possible to really please most people.

Interestingly on Jay Leno this evening Arnold said his daughter said it was the "Best Terminator film she's seen."

I wonder if his daughter has seen the other films? Plus, I'm a little skeptical because Arnold is the ultimate salesman and I think he's trying to help the Salvation folks out. Terminator still puts money in his pockets too so why not say that if it can perhaps convince some people to go see it? It's also telling that Arnold didn't say it's the best Terminator film he saw.

Did he compare it to his films BTW?

 

[Deckerd]

I haven't seen it yet but 45% thinking it's better than average is more than I expected, given all the bashing that's been going on.

 

[Mr Light]

I really enjoyed the movie. The action scenes were amazing and incredibly gritty and life-like. That entire protracted sequence with Marcus on the road being chased by the human collector and the motorcycles on the bridge...? WOW. Too bad the ending wasn't as "big" as that sequence. The only dumb thing is how Marcus being a Terminator is made a "mystery" for half the goddamn movie when it's prominently in every single stupid trailer.

 

[Daedalus12]

^ Marcus being a terminator wasn't a mystery at all in the movie. Most people without a priori knowledge figured it out when Marcus came back from being dead.

 

[Mr Light]

One thing about the movie I didn't understand; how did Skynet know that Kyle Reese, a teenage nobody, was important? Did the Terminatrix connect with Past-Skynet in T3 and give it all the information it would need on the future war and Connor or something? I don't recall the movie that well.

 

[Ryan8bit]

I've seen T1-T3 countless times. They aren't that deep or broad. You know why? Cause they are action movies, not heartfelt dramas. You know why they never competed for Best Actor or Best Picture? Cause they aren't that broad and deep.

Science fiction is seldom given a shot at best picture regardless of how deep it is.

And when we're talking about depth, it's all relative. T2 is a lot more deep than T4. Sure, it's not the epitome of depth, but in contrast to this movie it most certainly is.

I think what people wanted out of this movie was something to latch onto. They had plenty of opportunities to explore a theme, but they leave the threads dangling, and they focus more on the cool factor. An action movie, despite what some might say, doesn't have to be strictly limited to just mindless action. There can be a well strung together story, characters with development that people can identify with, emotional resonance, and even something to think about when the movie is done. Salvation failed on most of those levels.