Terminator: Salvation Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

[Dick Whitman]

I agree with you Skywalker. As someone already said its only value would have been for a shock. After which there would have been nowhere to go with the idea.

"Everything you thought you know is wrong! Ain't your mind blown???"

I hate stuff like that. Particularly when you know no real thought or plan went into it. Many of those wishing for that ending now would have be the same people disappointed in its payoff in future movies. Due to building up a gimmick in their own minds to be more than the writers intended. I've seen it happen numerous times with these types of things.

 

[species5618]

Well, I saw it earlier tonight and I thought it...wasn't good. I didn't flat out hate it, but I voted below average. There was something off about the pacing, and Bale's performance was sort of dull IMO...he seemed to be about as emotionless as the Terminators. It was a 90 percent full theatre, yet the only real crowd response I could see was when the Arnie T-800 showed up for about 30 seconds near the climax.

The most interesting part of the film was during the end, when myself and my friends got into a heated argument with some seat-kickers behind us...

Overall, a pretty disappointing outing, aside from some pretty impressive effects sequences.

 

[DarKush]

Apparently I'm in the minority regarding the original ending, where John Connor would have died, and Marcus had taken his place. I thought that was a terrible idea from the moment I first heard of it, and I'm very glad they decided to drop it.

I'm not sure how I would've felt about the original ending. I think I would've liked it for the fact that it would've been pretty bold and shocking. And ironic. It would've added a new dynamic to the franchise, and it would've set up some interesting possibilities for the future.

Would the new Connor be a mixture of Connor and Marcus identities,memories? How would Connor react to being inside a new body, how would Marcus react to sharing his mind/body with another conciousness? How does Kate and later her child react to the 'new' Connor? What about Barnes and Blair? Marcus and Blair were growing close, would they continue to have feelings for each other? Would Marcus/John wind up loving both women, and how would that work out? How does Marcus pull off convincing the people who don't know about the switch, but that might know the old Connor, that he is Connor? Would anyone be suspicious of him, particularly when knowledge of the infiltration model Terminators become widely known? Perhaps Connor, now being half machine gives him an insight into machines that allows him to actually come close or defeat Skynet using the best traits of man and machine.

It just opens up a lot of interesting possibilities to take these characters that doesn't exist now. Right now you've got desperate humans v. relentless machines. That hasn't changed in four movies.

Even the idea of Project Angel, from the Thud article (http://chud.com/articles/articles/1...NT-WRONG-WITH-TERMINATOR-SALVATION/Page1.html) seemed intriguing, but would've needed a little bit of work to make more sense.

I can't help but wonder if they made a mistake buckling in and not going with the original ending, because I think the movie in theaters failed to make the story John Connor's story. It was still too much of Marcus's story, and he and Kyle are the characters you care about most. In the original ending you could still care about Marcus and Kyle, and John since Marcus would be taking over Connor's role.

 

[stonester1]

Overall, a pretty disappointing outing, aside from some pretty impressive effects sequences.

Lots of lifeless noise, though pretty.

And Anton Yelchin as an outstanding Kyle Reese.

 

[davejames]

Hmm, now that I've had time to think about it... I have to say I actually prefer T3. Yeah it was basically just an uninspired remake of T2, but frankly seeing an older Arnold do his Terminator thing again-- and battle it out with a hot female Terminator--was cooler and more fun than ANYTHING in this new movie.

Plus I'll take the awesome crane chase and bathroom fight with the TX over any of the action sequences in T4.

 

[T'Baio]

With the exception of those montrous machines sneaking up on them, I thought the whole Harvester/H-K evasion/chase sequence was quite stunning. Better than T3's crane chase.

It was probably the highlight of the film for me, and evidence...along with Sam Worthington's and Anton Yelchin's excellent performances...that McG can direct. I don't think the film's flaws have anything to do with McG. I think it has to do with Brancato and Ferris being horrible writers, Bale having too much control, a knee jerk response to internet bitching...whether by executives or creatives, who knows...and having to edit around major omissions. If you don't have the footage to connect the dots, you don't have it. And by the way, directors don't edit their movies.

 

[QuasarVM]

B...S!!!

Let's hear your idea for it. What, pray tell, would you have done to make it better...we're all eyeballs.

Oh I could make this movie a thousand times better and more entertaining with a deeper meaning to it all.

WOW! You are so damn specific!

Um, yeah...I was really looking for some ideas but I can see he has none.

 

[davejames]

It was probably the highlight of the film for me, and evidence...along with Sam Worthington's and Anton Yelchin's excellent performances...that McG can direct. I don't think the film's flaws have anything to do with McG. I think it has to do with Brancato and Ferris being horrible writers, Bale having too much control, a knee jerk response to internet bitching...whether by executives or creatives, who knows...and having to edit around major omissions. If you don't have the footage to connect the dots, you don't have it. And by the way, directors don't edit their movies.

Yeah I think more of the blame for T4 lies with the writing than with McG. Yeah he probably could have illicited better performances out of the cast (particularly Bale), but overall I thought the direction of the movie was perfectly fine.

Frankly if it wasn't for the visual style and flash he brought to it, the movie probably would have been even MORE unbearable.

 

[JacksonArcher]

Yeah, but the director does have control over the script. I mean naturally as the script evolved from the early Brancato and Ferris draft to the Nolan and Paul Haggis rewrites (yes, even Paul Haggis contributed to the script).

 

[T'Baio]

Paul Haggis...ugh.

I wish McG hadn't jizzed in his pants over Bale.

 

[StarTrek1701]

Oh I could make this movie a thousand times better and more entertaining with a deeper meaning to it all.

WOW! You are so damn specific!

Um, yeah...I was really looking for some ideas but I can see he has none.

I am not the one being paid millions of dollars to expose them to the world. If I were, I would. I just don't want anyone stealing any ideas from me whatsoever.

 

[stonester1]

It was probably the highlight of the film for me, and evidence...along with Sam Worthington's and Anton Yelchin's excellent performances...that McG can direct. I don't think the film's flaws have anything to do with McG. I think it has to do with Brancato and Ferris being horrible writers, Bale having too much control, a knee jerk response to internet bitching...whether by executives or creatives, who knows...and having to edit around major omissions. If you don't have the footage to connect the dots, you don't have it. And by the way, directors don't edit their movies.

Yeah I think more of the blame for T4 lies with the writing than with McG. Yeah he probably could have illicited better performances out of the cast (particularly Bale), but overall I thought the direction of the movie was perfectly fine.

Frankly if it wasn't for the visual style and flash he brought to it, the movie probably would have been even MORE unbearable.

Like I said, McG is technically adept, no doubt. But unless he has good support in other departments, he's not varied enough to cover more bases.

T-S needed that kind of director, or better people in those slots.

 

[Captain Craig]

I'm just ROFL at you people you seriously believe T2 is this great piece of scripted plot driven action movie.
T2 & T3(until the last 10min) are the SAME FREAKING movie as T1. THE SAME.

Timetravel a good guy, time travel a bad guy fight to save/kill the primary objective. Toss in a number of witty puns, loud explosions and human despair. Shake and repeat each time with larger budget and more boom and flash.
All 3 have logic problems cause its FICTION! Its just when and where some decided to come down hard on these that amuses me, like now, or irks me.

T4 is a good film. An entertaining film and I hope that as the only new adult action feature next weekend it finds additional audience while UP and Museum compete for similar audience.
I'm glad as hell to not have a T4 follow the same worn out formula of sending two back in time to once again stop Judgement Day.
Too many bitch and moan about sameness but this thread seems full of people who wanted that when they are normally the ones screaming for newness.

I swear its like my ex-girlfriend who never knew what she really wanted has been cloned and they are all posting in the T4 thread.

 

[QuasarVM]

I'm just ROFL at you people you seriously believe T2 is this great piece of scripted plot driven action movie.
T2 & T3(until the last 10min) are the SAME FREAKING movie as T1. THE SAME.

Timetravel a good guy, time travel a bad guy fight to save/kill the primary objective. Toss in a number of witty puns, loud explosions and human despair. Shake and repeat each time with larger budget and more boom and flash.
All 3 have logic problems cause its FICTION! Its just when and where some decided to come down hard on these that amuses me, like now, or irks me.

T4 is a good film. An entertaining film and I hope that as the only new adult action feature next weekend it finds additional audience while UP and Museum compete for similar audience.
I'm glad as hell to not have a T4 follow the same worn out formula of sending two back in time to once again stop Judgement Day.
Too many bitch and moan about sameness but this thread seems full of people who wanted that when they are normally the ones screaming for newness.

I swear its like my ex-girlfriend who never knew what she really wanted has been cloned and they are all posting in the T4 thread.

Exactly! You tell em, Captain!

 

[melancholymecha]

^ the film's been very polarizing. Not just on this forum.

Would the new Connor be a mixture of Connor and Marcus identities,memories? How would Connor react to being inside a new body, how would Marcus react to sharing his mind/body with another conciousness? How does Kate and later her child react to the 'new' Connor? What about Barnes and Blair? Marcus and Blair were growing close, would they continue to have feelings for each other? Would Marcus/John wind up loving both women, and how would that work out? How does Marcus pull off convincing the people who don't know about the switch, but that might know the old Connor, that he is Connor? Would anyone be suspicious of him, particularly when knowledge of the infiltration model Terminators become widely known? Perhaps Connor, now being half machine gives him an insight into machines that allows him to actually come close or defeat Skynet using the best traits of man and machine.

dont worry, just watch the new season of Heroes in Sept. They may be dealing with a very similar storyline.

 

[T'Baio]

I'm just ROFL at you people you seriously believe T2 is this great piece of scripted plot driven action movie.
T2 & T3(until the last 10min) are the SAME FREAKING movie as T1. THE SAME.

Actually, T2 is not.

The Terminator was about a T-800 going after Sarah Connor and trying to kill her, and Kyle finding her and protecting her.

T2 was initially about that, but had far more hooks. The depth of Sarah's character arc, from where she was in that film to where she is in T2, the asylum, is terrifying. And there's John in the mix. But you can still make the argument it's about one Terminator finding Sarah and/or John to kill, and one character who happens to also be a Terminator to protect them. Few extra hooks, but essentially the same story.

Where T2 diverges, and it is sort of the surprise of the film in the sense that it is like "HA! You thought it was gonna' be more of the same, but now we're gonna' throw something a little different at ya'!", is where Sarah decides to find Miles Dyson and destroy him and everything he works for in an attempt to destroy SkyNet. This is the heart of the movie, and where it takes a drastic diversion from the original. Sarah, who we're already shocked at who she's become, becomes a machine, a Terminator and tries to kill Dyson. Long story short, she realizes her error and regains her humanity. Her mercy and her choice and her pain and her sacrifice is what makes her human, and she regains that. This diversion makes T2 far different than Terminator, and is what gives the first two films their weight. Fuck John Connor. It's Sarah that the saviour of humanity, and her character arc is heartbreaking.

It was T3 which simply note for note copies T2. And not only was it virtually a carbon copy with very little divergence in its plot lines, character arcs and themes, it was done poorly.

 

[nx1701g]

^ Agreed about T2. That is what I love about the film is watching Sarah Connor become what she hates then being redeemed. The perfect scenes are when she's dressed in total black and driving to Dyson's house. To me that scene always screamed Terminator.

 

[Kirk's_Tights]

I thought it was above average.


The critics gave it a C+ and I really think they've got it all wrong. Sure, the story wasn't 100% accurate but I still enjoyed it. Great action, Christian Bale, CGI Arnold, YAY!


Would have been better if they threw in a random flashback of Michael Biehn from the first movie <3 He's also in T2 but they cut that scene out.

 

[T'Baio]

Linda Hamilton, say what you want about the rest of her resume, fucking owns T2. People have always wondered whether the Terminator franchise can survive without Arnold. I don't think it is what it is without Linda Hamilton. Sarah Connor is the heart of it all.

In T2 where she sets off for Dyson, tries to kill him, and then convinces him to destroy everything...that's the best of the Terminator mythos for me. When she has a gun in his face, telling him it's all his fault, and her humanity creeps up on her...Linda Hamilton was Oscar worthy and the Terminator films solidified themselves as so much more than action movies.

 

[stonester1]

I agree that T4 is a noble departure and should be the direction the films go to develope the story.

But it needs to be done better, FAR better. Needs to be more than setup hooks for sum BEEG 'splosions.