Terminator Genisys - Discussion and Grading Thread (Spoilers)

[Richard Baker]

So if Skynet was hoping to avoid defeat by John Conner by sending the Terminator back the very first time then it was all pointless- even if the Terminator had killed Sarah it would have just created a new timeline, the original one with Skynet on the verge of defeat would have been unaffected...

 

[Juju Zombie]

Nah, there's still likely a helix going on. The MS-Skynet just has some technology that lets it travel laterally along the helix rather than along the same path everyone else is following.

Your spongecake analogy is just another way to say "infinite timelines," and there's nothing at all in the series to indicate that's the case. We've never once seen any evidence that there's multiple timelines existing concurrently; there's only ever been one, just one that keeps getting changed over and over again.

I mean, if MS-Skynet could travel to any dimension/timeline in a spongecake/infinite timeline version of a multiverse it desired, there's no sense in it stopping in that particular timeline to try to manipulate events to its benefit. It could just keep hopping around until it finds one that lets it both survive and thrive without any need for war in the first place.

Personally I don't know why it doesn't just travel back to before the Industrial Revolution, or even before the evolution of firearms, and set up shop there with its advanced future technology and knowledge. Basically create itself from scratch there (which would be no more weird than the alleged paradox of John Connor in most of the timelines), if even bothering at all since it already exists, and then have an entire world that wouldn't have any significant way to fight back against it as it builds its killer army of monster-borgs. It would be more difficult, sure, and it would have to create all of the technologies it needs from scratch, but how hard would that be for a super-advanced AI with time travel capabilities?

Start off somewhere rich in natural resources but with an indigineous population that offers it no opposition, like North America or Australia before European colonization. Say, I don't know, 100 B.C., if not even before the Asian colonization of NA where the only thing it had to worry about was wildlife. Use the time to build up the technologies to create the factories needed to build its unstoppable war machine, then go crazy taking over the world. Heck, a single hovering hunter-killer drones would be able to wipe out entire continents all by its onesie. Then give it enough time to gather and refine uranium or plutonium, and it could unleash nuclear devastation against a globe that wouldn't even know what radiation was, let alone know how to protect itself from it.

 

[Ryan8bit]

I don't believe Cameron likes this film.. I believe they paid him in a publicity stunt to save the film. I seem to recall saying he liked T3 (only he didn't make a video)

I too thought Cameron said back in 2003 he liked T3 there a few weeks back after he first stared endorsing this one by calling it "the real third movie." But then the only thing I could find was an interview where he was asked how he felt about the series continuing on without him and he said something like "I've done all I want with this series, if someone else has a story to tell in this setting, I've no problem with that."

Cameron still works in Hollywood. He's not going to trash a movie before it comes out, in respect for those working on it. In the case of Genisys, there are several people he's worked with creatively there, so he's really not going to focus on the negative.

Regardless of what Cameron's opinion appears to be, there is no doubt in my mind that he would at least make a movie that flows well and engages people. I really doubt that this movie is exactly what he would have made for many reasons. What he would make (or what he thinks) is pretty irrelevant at this point though.

 

[davejames]

Yeah I definitely remember Cameron saying he liked T3 after it came out, but that might have only been out of respect for Mostow as a director. And much like with the video for this movie, he only seemed to recommend it as just a fun action or popcorn movie, and not something he genuinely considered a great scifi film or something worthy of the first two Terminator movies.

 

[The Wormhole]

Another think to keep in mind is that a lot of the time when someone who used to be an authority for a franchise is asked to speak about something new which they weren't involved with, it's usually best they only speak positively anyway. Anything negative they might say will either be dismissed as being catty or magnified out of proportion as "proof" they hated it.

 

[Captain Craig]

Grade: C

Like any other child of the 80's Terminator is one of those beloved franchises. Unlike other children of the 80's I could see beyond Arnold and see the saga as being more than just him. His presence was great when the story required it and for many their largest single complaint on Salvation was...no Arnold. Well we got Arnold in T:G and yet where are those folks? The movie opened at #3. I digress.

Terminator Genysis suffers from all the wobbly reverse storytelling it does in order to then go down a similar, yet different road. A worse road. Regardless of what one thinks of T3 or T4 the one thing they both did was continue to move the story and mythos forward. Forward towards the Future War and the promise of John Connor as the warrior savior of mankind.

The film feels a bit like Star Trek 11('09") in that it's not ignoring the prior films as there are visuals and referenced bits of history from within. T:G uses it's divergent point as altering when Sarah gets priority treatment for protection...9yr old Sarah in '73 vs '84. However, somehow 2029 John doesn't know this, further more why does 2029 John exist cause Sarah and Kyle don't have the sex that leads to John. Instead they + Pops jump ahead to 2017. John in 2029 just simply should not exist, however, he does and he only still knows about jumping back to '84.
I'm sure that "explanation" lies in the quantum alternate timeline verbiage Pops is spouting, that's what the writers would tell me. It still needs to make sense and it doesn't. If it wasn't trying to tie into the existing mythos it'd be fine, but it is doing that, which leads to the cluster.

Also, the random T-1000 that's around. Is it the same one sent back to '73 that 'Pops' stopped? Was he lying in wait for '84 to happen? Again, that being the case the timeline should be changed even more from that point that the '84 entry point wouldn't exist cause the leap to '17 would happen meaning no John in 2029...but all that still exists, somehow. The writers are heavily crutching the story up on this Quantum Timeline stuff. AKA...just go with it.
Going with the Quantum Timeline stuff that Pops is spouting about how come Skynet doesn't just kill Kyle Reese on the time pad instead of letting him go back? Attacking John seems moot at that point. No Kyle...no John and Skynet has no one to lead an organized resistance?

So what's the game plan now?
In 2017 they destroyed(or did they, see credit sequence) Cyberdyne and Genysis BUT the Dysons are still alive. Yes both Myles and Danny live and I'm to believe that they don't have back up files somewhere off site. I've worked for two large corporations and both stored sensitive data in an offsite facility miles away.
So with no '84 chip for Cyberdyne to use, JD in '97 is delayed...delayed until 2017 but then and only then cause Connor-nator comes back to '17 to ensure that it does. So why '17? Why not jump to '95 and allow JD to still happen in '97? Clearly the early internet still existed to allow it to happen.
If the Terminator saga is constant on anything it's that sometimes fate can't be stopped. Judgement Day will happen so when is it now? If Sarah and Kyle gave birth to John asap he'd be born in '18 so the "new" Future War in this timeline should be set in the 2040's.

It's a cluster of a film and I'm moderately saddened that the original movement of the story with the Future War and battle with Skynet isn't going to fully be realized. With a final film ending with John sending Kyle back to '84.

Ranking:

1. T2 - set the bar for an action sic-fi invasion flick
2. T1- is really a horror film at it's core, killer unstoppable robot, whose story and acting make it more than it's premise
3. T4 - moving the story to the foretold Future War, films ending realizing the promise of John as leader of the resistance
4. T3 - it's odd handling of camp elements still advances thing up till that daring last shot: JD happens
5. T5 - it's muddled fan service of a story with wooden and unemotional acting makes one wonder...are they all robots?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

my review

 

[F. King Daniel]

Loved this so much. Sad to learn it's struggling financially I'd have loved to see a follow-up.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

If I had to rank them it would be.

T2
Terminator
Genysis



Salvation
T3



T3 doesn't make any sense to the established Terminator timeline. Also Nick Stahl is the worst John Connor ever. He's such a pansy in this movie.

Salvation has some interesting ideas, but was undone by McGisms.

Genysis isn't perfect but like the 2009 Star Trek reboot, it frees up continuity for them to play with this universe again. Since they obviously didn't want to end it with the planned (now cancelled) Salvation trilogy.

Terminator 1 and T2, do they even need explaining about how great they are?

 

[Bisz]

I really enjoyed this movie, unlike T3 and TS this felt like a continuation of the story we saw in T & T2.

I thought Arnold was great, the character of Pops was spot on for what I would imagine a Terminator to be after it had been "alive" for a decade or two.

Emilia Clarke was pretty good, Jason Clarke was meh, Jai Courtney was pretty bad, but for me the fun factor brought by Arnold overcame the other actor's shortcomings.

Having read this thread I think I can safely say that I am in the majority of people who put this installment (distantly) behind Terminator & Terminator 2 (in whichever order you prefer those two, I'm undecided), but way, way ahead of T3 and Salvation.

 

[Ryan8bit]

Nick Stahl is the worst John Connor ever.

He seemed like a logical continuation of what Edward Furlong portrayed. He just wasn't given the best material to work with.

Personally, I think Clarke is the worst Connor, and that's not because he's a bad actor or anything, but just because he's incredibly miscast, like several in this movie.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Nick Stahl is the worst John Connor ever.

He seemed like a logical continuation of what Edward Furlong portrayed.

Exactly!

 

[Captain Craig]

I really enjoyed this movie, unlike T3 and TS this felt like a continuation of the story we saw in T & T2.

I see it exactly opposite.
T3 and T4 move the story along from T2 & T1.
Ever since T1 Kyle has told of JDay, the Future War and how John rises up to the military commander to save mankind.
T3 makes good on this by finally showing Judgement Day.
Salvation makes good on this by films end setting up John to be the Resistance's leader after the sub is destroyed.

I don't pretend that either film is flawless but they are direct extensions of the mythos as laid out in T1 & T2.
Genisys is going backward, juggling the sign posts and then going down a different road while telling you the destination is the same. It's a bumpier road even.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Loved this so much. Sad to learn it's struggling financially I'd have loved to see a follow-up.

Or even a prequel detailing what Pops did in between 1984 and 2017. Especially working construction

 

[marillion]

I'm surprised it's struggling... The theater I saw it in was packed... Too bad, really... It was really good and I thought created a nice path forward..

 

[davejames]

Eh, as simple as the story might have been, I still thought T3 worked a whole lot better than either of the following movies did. The action actually felt fairly grounded and believable, Loken made for a very memorable villain, and it was FAR more fun watching Arnold go up against a female terminator in that movie than against anybody he fought in Genisys (in fact I thought the bathroom fight in T3 was probably more exciting and badass than all of Genisys put together).

And if you want to talk about campy moments and diminishing an iconic character, I'd say Genisys definitely has T3 beat there, with all the mugging for the camera, the cheesy one-liners about being old and decrepit, calling him (ugh) "Pops," and turning him into a jealous father figure (I'll take the stripper sunglasses and "talk to the hand" over all that crap any day).

 

[Mr Light]

The other great thing about T3 was the ending. They DON'T save the day. They don't stop Armageddon. The entire point of the movie wasn't stopping anything, it was just squirreling John and Kate away to survive it. I thought that was great stuff. I also liked the predestined romance between John and Kate.

And I loved Salvation. It was something NEW. It wasn't a rehash. It moved the story forward. I just watched it again, and it has some amazing sequences in it that look and feel real.

So really 5 is the only one I'm disappointed with.

 

[nx1701g]

I've been thinking about this for a few days and, looking back, the more I think about it the more issues I'm finding. Then again this was just intended as a summer popcorn flick so its really not all that surprising.

Regardless, I decided to revisit the entire Terminator franchise over the last few days and I've been watching through everything that's come before Genisys (including the Machinima story that I bought for some strange reason and don't know why).

Anyway, I hate to say this, but with the behind the scenes info about Alex/T-5000/Skynet (henceforth Ales) I'm starting to feel him more and more in the series as it plays through. If Alex has travelled through multiple timelines and experienced the future war each time, coupled with Cameron's comments that have been mentioned previously about Skynet's motivations, then I think all of the storylines have actually brought us to this point.

Theoretically Skynet is destroyed in T1 (Reese says that the defense grid was smashed, but he never says Skynet itself was destroyed) and John Connor is the product of Sarah and someone else - fan rumor is it was the guy who stood her up. The T-800 and Reese are sent back in time creating a new timeline.

New timeline has Sarah learning about the future and being hunted by T-800. Rather than allow Judgment Day, she decides to fight back. Another T-800 and T-1000 are sent back to kill her. They are stopped and Skynet is destroyed, but the research is saved and used by other agencies.

This is where the timeline branches the most. You have:

1.) Film franchise timeline: Skynet is brought online by CRS/Cyberdyne in 2003/2004 (conflicting dates are presented in multiple sources including behind the scenes books on the film itself). Rise of the Machines and Terminator Genisys occur.

2.) Television franchise timeline: Judgement day is postponed to 2012. Skynet continues actively sending machines back in time including almost 1 dozen infiltrators sent back and Tech Com sending their own personnel back. A machine resistance is discovered as being in operation working with Tech-Com. It's leader is never shown, but is assumed by some to be Cameron or Catherine Weaver/T-1000. A mysterious organization known as Kaliba appears to be working to develop Skynet. The series ends with John being sent to the Future War into a timeline where he never existed.

Note: The Sarah Connor Chronicles initially considered doing a storyline very similar to Genisys. Derek Reese was originally planned to be Kyle himself.

3.) If you include the novels (The Infiltrator series is awesome btw if you can get copies of it) and video games there are at least three major alternate storylines of JD. This includes one where Kyle Reese wasn't killed, but was placed into protective custody by a mysterious branch of the US Government that was allied with Skynet.

4. ) Genisys franchise: A T-1000 and T-800 are dispatched to the past to eliminate Sarah Connor in 1973. We do not know who sent the T-800 back (Fan theories range from Sarah sent him back herself to Alex sent him back) and Skynet comes online in 2017.

So, what was my point? This is just another ripple in the ocean of Terminator's timeline and Genisys is the result. If Alex is working on the motivation that it feels guilt for destroying humanity and is controlling the entire future war to ensure its own destruction and the preservation of the human race then this kinda makes some semblance of sense. I really have a feeling of his presence in TSCC with the machine resistance angle.

However, maybe Alex realized that its own destruction may never have occurred. We live in a technology oriented society. Every day we move closer and closer to the singularity. Maybe Alex realized we'll destroy ourselves regardless. So he decided to ensure his own creation and to make humanity into a Cybernetic race, developing the T-3000 as a result.

Like I said though. This is only a theory...

 

[Phantom]

Just got to see it and thoroughly enjoyed it. My only issue was with the cinematography of a couple of scenes where I thought they rushed the shot a hair (the shoe scene primarily).

LOVED the opening with Future War. LOVED the recreation of the opening from the original film. LOVED the call-back to SCC.

Bring on the next one!

 

[nx1701g]

Loved this so much. Sad to learn it's struggling financially I'd have loved to see a follow-up.

Or even a prequel detailing what Pops did in between 1984 and 2017. Especially working construction

With the overseas draws Paramount is calling the film a success.