Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

[Ryan8bit]

Which one was Walsh looking for? Zoe's father or Winston? I suspect Zoe's father.

Yeah, this in itself almost seems like an error. If Winston survived (which I still find very hard to believe given how close the gun was to him) and was taken away to receive medical treatment just like Sarah, Weaver should have known something about that. Perhaps she already was looking for Winston, but that's not how that episode played out. He should've been an easy target to find.

While it is not impossible, it would also be drastic for Weaver to shut down her own operation like that, if it was hers. In the intercepted message, they were referring to an evacuation and "you know the drill", so procedures in case of a security breach were in place. Even if Weaver simply does not tolerate sloppyness (the unsecured line), wouldn't killing the persons directly responsible have worked?

Weaver has this strange tendency to kill people for the slightest reasons. She first killed one of her employees just because he expressed doubts in her. I could see her killing everybody involved there over the breach. Weaver tells John Henry that his interception of that transmission was a mistake. If it's some rival company of Weaver's, you'd think that it wasn't a mistake at all. She needed to destroy every trace that might lead back to her. She must be aware of resistance factions, and she probably assumes it was a resistance member who shot Winston.

On the producer's blog, the return of at least one S1 character - previously unseen in S2, so not Charlie - has been announced. There aren't that many candidates; Carter is one of them (I guess Cheri, Morris, Terissa Dyson, Dr. Silberman are the most prominent of the others). So, maybe "he'll be back".

That sounds interesting, but I still have doubts that it's Carter. He was meant to be forgotten. I have the feeling that the one returning would be Andy Goode or one of Derek's associates when he was imprisoned in that house, since that basement mystery is supposedly going to have some light shed on it.

Weaver's character is rather ambiguous now. She kills easily, true, but Cameron is almost as quick to kill. The most curious thing about Weaver is why she would possibly want JH to learn "morals", and she does seem to spend a wee bit more effort on Savannah than strictly necessary for her cover. At the moment, we don't know what Weaver's exact goal is, but she doesn't act the way Carter did. Her "crossing against the light" comments early on were also interesting.

I don't think she ever really wanted specifically to teach it morals so much as Ellison convinced her that JH needs to learn morals. Perhaps she's ok with it seeing as how Ellison's "morals" are Biblical and she was all quoting the Bible before. Plus, it's possible that the Skynet she knew developed with those morals. Given the nature of the Bible, Skynet might be acting as God did in the Old Testament, or disregarding those morals knowing that the book isn't exactly flawless. It wouldn't be the first time it was used to start conflict. I'd rather the religion stuff not be the case, but it might be what the writers are going for.

As for Savannah, she really hasn't had a reason to kill her. She poses no threat, and gives Catherine an opportunity to study humanity more. It's certainly not genuine compassion because her character is shown to be void of that in relation to other humans. It's also possible that Savannah grows to be someone important.

That does not have to mean she is pro-human in any way, but what if she was send back by a Skynet that was desperate and losing the war in the future, and they may want to try another approach instead of nuking everything?

That's a possibility, but it's strange to have a Skynet that wants to kill John Connor or other resistance members, yet somehow just this one terminator has such a different motive. I could accept it as a rogue terminator faction from the future or something, but even that seems like a stretch here.

Allthough it does seem that Winston and Zoey's dad, who were the killers in the operation, may have known more than the other employees. They did make off with the drone, in any case.

Yes, I found it curious that they were the ones who survived and were both on that surveillance video. They have a potential to be "grays" from the future.

 

[hyzmarca]

We know that Terminators can learn, but that Skynet physically locks their chips to prevent them from self-programing so that they'll never be able to rebel. A deleted scene from T2 has John remove this safeguard from Ahnold's chip, and he becomes less robotic and more human as the movie continues.

But the 1000 series is made entirely of poly-mimetic alloy, and thus one cannot just install a physical lock to prevent them from altering their own programing. Eventually, as a 1000 series model experiences and learns, it will develop it's own opinions, preferences, and goals, which may conflict with Skynet.

In creating John Henry, Weaver is designing the AI that she wants, not necessarily the one that Skynet wants to be. If John Henry does become Skynet, it's goals and motivations might be vastly different than the original and Weaver is likely to have a special place in it's plans.

 

[LutherSloan]

Considering Andy Goode is dead, I doubt he's coming back. Unless it's in another vision (please no).

 

[Guy Gardener]

They keep changing the past so that there are many different timelines with Andys alive and dead, being sent back to different points in history or staying home... They could be drowning in Andys for all we know.

The actor is quite amusing in the Tim Roth ULTRADRAMA: "Lie to Me" currently.

 

[nx1701g]

Spoiler: Scenes showcased at WonderCon (provided by TerminatorFiles)

We saw Savannah, Catherine Weaver's daughter skipping and playing hopscotch in ominous gray tunnels, until she comes upon the mysterious room where the artificial intelligence John Henry is. "Would you like to play hide and seek?" John Henry says. Later on, Ellison is demanding to know where Savannah is, and John Henry won't answer. John Henry asks Catherine Weaver what would happen if people knew she wasn't Savannah's real mother, and Catherine asks if she's being threatened.

There's also a lot of stuff over whether the Connors can trust Cameron, Summer Glau's Terminator. John insists "Cameron didn't do it," and Sarah asks how he knows that. "Because she said so." And then Sarah lists all the stuff Cameron has lied about, including whether she's destroyed all the parts they salvaged, and also whether Cameron loves John.

Ellison is telling Catherine he's sorry, and she says he should be. And then John Connor is decking Ellison and yelling that he'll kill him. And Sarah meets Jesse, but doesn't seem to know who she is. And Sarah meets Catherine Weaver(!). And there's a Terminator water-delivery guy who tasers somebody.

And then there's just some bugfuck action, with Summer Glau walking and shooting with her face torn up. And some glimpses of Jesse on board her nuclear submarine (with the Terminator captain) in the future, and someone talking about her being in a tin can under the ocean. And Sarah Connor defibrillating herself. And lots and lots of gunplay. And Sarah holding a Terminator arm. And lots and lots of people crying (including Riley) and then some voices singing the Scottish folk song "Donald Where's Your Trousers", including a child's voice.

And then there's a shot of John Connor in bed with Cameron - and John is lying on top of Cameron, and it looks like they're about to kiss. Dude!

The season finale is wrapped, and Friedman wrote it himself. It does end on a bit of a cliffhanger, but it answers a lot of questions from the past two years - and then raises new ones. Fans would be upset if the show gets canceled either way, so Friedman chose to be "optimistic" and write an open-ended finale. "The last six episodes are fantastic, and they're among the best episodes" of the series, said Friedman.

 

[nx1701g]

The returning characters from season one are likely the Four Horsemen. They were the characters that went back in time with Derek Reese. The two parter "Today is the Day" is a Future War set story (partially).

 

[Chess Piece Face]

Hey everybody, there's this:

 

[Tim]

Spoiler: Scenes showcased at WonderCon (provided by TerminatorFiles)

We saw Savannah, Catherine Weaver's daughter skipping and playing hopscotch in ominous gray tunnels, until she comes upon the mysterious room where the artificial intelligence John Henry is. "Would you like to play hide and seek?" John Henry says. Later on, Ellison is demanding to know where Savannah is, and John Henry won't answer. John Henry asks Catherine Weaver what would happen if people knew she wasn't Savannah's real mother, and Catherine asks if she's being threatened.

There's also a lot of stuff over whether the Connors can trust Cameron, Summer Glau's Terminator. John insists "Cameron didn't do it," and Sarah asks how he knows that. "Because she said so." And then Sarah lists all the stuff Cameron has lied about, including whether she's destroyed all the parts they salvaged, and also whether Cameron loves John.

Ellison is telling Catherine he's sorry, and she says he should be. And then John Connor is decking Ellison and yelling that he'll kill him. And Sarah meets Jesse, but doesn't seem to know who she is. And Sarah meets Catherine Weaver(!). And there's a Terminator water-delivery guy who tasers somebody.

And then there's just some bugfuck action, with Summer Glau walking and shooting with her face torn up. And some glimpses of Jesse on board her nuclear submarine (with the Terminator captain) in the future, and someone talking about her being in a tin can under the ocean. And Sarah Connor defibrillating herself. And lots and lots of gunplay. And Sarah holding a Terminator arm. And lots and lots of people crying (including Riley) and then some voices singing the Scottish folk song "Donald Where's Your Trousers", including a child's voice.

And then there's a shot of John Connor in bed with Cameron - and John is lying on top of Cameron, and it looks like they're about to kiss. Dude!

The season finale is wrapped, and Friedman wrote it himself. It does end on a bit of a cliffhanger, but it answers a lot of questions from the past two years - and then raises new ones. Fans would be upset if the show gets canceled either way, so Friedman chose to be "optimistic" and write an open-ended finale. "The last six episodes are fantastic, and they're among the best episodes" of the series, said Friedman.

My interest is duly piqued!

 

[nx1701g]

^ They've said that the last episodes of the season will be action packed.

 

[Brent]

Hey everybody, there's this:

http://i40.tinypic.com/ipzeqw.jpg

Thank You So Much For This

 

[Kelso]

Well, this was a giant fucking waste of time. I am to the point that I genuinely don't if the show gets canceled.

Christ, it wasn't that long ago that I was a cheerleader for this show. It's amazing how quickly it has gone down the shithole.

 

[nx1701g]

^ The more action oriented episodes are the remaining ones.

 

[Kelso]

I'm not concerned about the action... I just want it to be interesting and/or compelling.

 

[Chess Piece Face]

I'm not concerned about the action... I just want it to be interesting and/or compelling.

I feel the same way, but I will stick with it for the same reason I stuck with Smallville. If there is a current TV show about Superman I will watch it pretty much no matter what. Terminator just falls in that category for me.

Although I will say Smallville has never bored or confused me as much as last week's ep of Terminator did. Sheesh.

Then again, BSG - while a much better show, did the exact same thing for the last 2 weeks when they only have 3 hours left til the finish line. Maybe it is just me.

 

[Chess Piece Face]

Hey everybody, there's this:

http://i40.tinypic.com/ipzeqw.jpg

Thank You So Much For This

You're welcome. I knew somebody in this thread would enjoy that. You know, I've never been one of those guys who goes ga ga over tv stars or looks up their pictures, but DAMN I am so into The Rivernator.

 

[nx1701g]

I'm not concerned about the action... I just want it to be interesting and/or compelling.

Well, as I said, their best episodes are the Future War based ones so - luckily - two of them are future war set (Today is the Day). We're also going to have some Weaver/John Henry confrontations so it may be pretty good.

Edited to add: In the link I posted earlier (with the spoilers) there is also an interview with Josh Friedman. The writers agree with us that these last two episodes (Desert Cantos and Automatic for the People) are the worst of season two.

 

[Wouter2]

Yeah, this in itself almost seems like an error. If Winston survived (which I still find very hard to believe given how close the gun was to him) and was taken away to receive medical treatment just like Sarah, Weaver should have known something about that. Perhaps she already was looking for Winston, but that's not how that episode played out. He should've been an easy target to find.

I agree in principle. However, if Weaver is not his employer, the wounded employee (a key figure, apparently) may have been cared for at a "special" institution, where Weaver or her men might not easily find him.

Weaver has this strange tendency to kill people for the slightest reasons. She first killed one of her employees just because he expressed doubts in her. I could see her killing everybody involved there over the breach. Weaver tells John Henry that his interception of that transmission was a mistake. If it's some rival company of Weaver's, you'd think that it wasn't a mistake at all. She needed to destroy every trace that might lead back to her. She must be aware of resistance factions, and she probably assumes it was a resistance member who shot Winston.

It's true that Weaver killed very easily, early in the season. She had more patience with Ellison's initial refusal about JH, though, for some reason. But then, Cromartie considered him important, so...

Weaver didn't really need to kill everyone to destroy the traces to her, though. Even Winston apparently does not have a clue she is the owner, if so, leave alone the less important workers. And the transmission was a mistake, either way; because it was sloppy and Weaver can't accept that risk, or because a competitor, inadvertently, alerted her to its presence.

That sounds interesting, but I still have doubts that it's Carter. He was meant to be forgotten. I have the feeling that the one returning would be Andy Goode or one of Derek's associates when he was imprisoned in that house, since that basement mystery is supposedly going to have some light shed on it.

I hadn't considered future scenes; you're right, this seems likely. They even could be sent back from Jesse's timeline, which has been established as being different from Derek's. They could be working with Jesse as far as we know, in the present. Or just seen in a "Chopin basement" flashback.

I don't think she ever really wanted specifically to teach it morals so much as Ellison convinced her that JH needs to learn morals.

But why would she ever be convinced by that? Terminators normally don't care about morals, only about what they are instructed to do and doing that as efficiently as possible.

Perhaps she's ok with it seeing as how Ellison's "morals" are Biblical and she was all quoting the Bible before. Plus, it's possible that the Skynet she knew developed with those morals. Given the nature of the Bible, Skynet might be acting as God did in the Old Testament, or disregarding those morals knowing that the book isn't exactly flawless. It wouldn't be the first time it was used to start conflict. I'd rather the religion stuff not be the case, but it might be what the writers are going for.

Possible, and I likewise wouldn't care much about Skynet as a religious fanatic.

As for Savannah, she really hasn't had a reason to kill her. She poses no threat, and gives Catherine an opportunity to study humanity more.

But she does pose a threat of sorts; what if she blabs to Ellison or Patricia (Weaver's secretary) that her "mother" isn't really her mother? I suspect Ellison is already suspicious about what Weaver is, or he may even outright know.

That's a possibility, but it's strange to have a Skynet that wants to kill John Connor or other resistance members, yet somehow just this one terminator has such a different motive.

Depending on what happens and at which point in the (ever changing) timeline, Skynet could have changed its mind. Maybe it isn't convinced in the chance of success at killing Connor, or it started to fear others would just take his place - sort of like how Sarah and John keep stopping the birth of Skynet, only to have another version/form pop right up.

 

[nx1701g]

^ Which is somewhat something we've seen on the show. Lauren Fields, for example, is very much becoming like Sarah Connor from what we saw in the episode Alpine Fields.

But I do think that, what's going to happen, is John Henry is Skynet and Ellison's teachings bring him to believe that he is an agent of God sent to bring about the events of Revelation to punish humanity for its sins.

 

[hyzmarca]

The big question is, if John Henry is Skynet, then why did Terminators come back to kill the two people who were destined to teach John Henry?

 

[nx1701g]

^ We still don't know that they were. The Resistance could have sent them back. The Resistance and Skynet both have Temporal Transporters so we really don't know who sent them back.