I have a simple, in-universe question in need of a definitive answer: Was the Ten Forward lounge always on board 1701-D and we just never saw it during the first season, or was it added to the ship between the events of "The Neutral Zone" and "The Child"?
Ten Forward Question
- Thread starter Mark Boeder
- Start date
There nothing definite one way or the other. The windows were always there, but no indication what was behind them.
My unsupported belief is that the TenForward lounge was there from the time the ship was commissioned, and Guinan was aboard during Encounter at Farpoint.
It and she were just unseen.
My unsupported belief is that the TenForward lounge was there from the time the ship was commissioned, and Guinan was aboard during Encounter at Farpoint.
It and she were just unseen.
I'm pretty sure they mention Ten-Forward in the flashback portions of "All Good Things", retroactively establishing that it was always there but unseen.
Yep. Troi says that a reception was held there after Picard arrived on board.
I always assume Ten Forward was there from construction, but pretty certain Guinan wasn't. I can't remember if it is mentioned that she came on board after Yar's death, but she did say they hadn't met.
A question I've always had about Ten Forward is whether or not those windows correpsond to what actually exists in the design of the ship, the ENT-D, model ... or if it there wasn't ever any real concern for all of that?
Surely, logically speaking, it must always have been there?
A ship with schools, holodecks, gyms, barbers can not have set sail without a bar for the crew to socialise with a few drinks. It just doesn't make sense.
Although I do find the thought of what you are postulating amusing.
"Sir incoming hail, priority one from Starfleet Command!"
"On Screen"
"Dammit Picard, we forgot to install the pub! Return to Starbase immediately while we make the necessary modifications!"
A ship with schools, holodecks, gyms, barbers can not have set sail without a bar for the crew to socialise with a few drinks. It just doesn't make sense.
Although I do find the thought of what you are postulating amusing.
"Sir incoming hail, priority one from Starfleet Command!"
"On Screen"
"Dammit Picard, we forgot to install the pub! Return to Starbase immediately while we make the necessary modifications!"
Sort of. The windows that were there originally (6-footer) didn't really lend themselves to the Ten Forward we know. Probert's early idea was that it was a walkway.
The Ten Forward windows were added for the 4-foot model, requiring them to 'fatten' the edge of the saucer, with mixed results IMO.
In Redemption II, Guinan talks with Picard about Sela and shows insight into her and how she can be Tasha's daughter. Picard says that Tasha had died "a year before you came on this ship" so that pretty much establishes Guinan came on the ship well after Tasha's death. Allowing for Picard to be hyperbolic, rounding up, or just exaggerating it could have been months and not really a full year.
Tasha's final episode "Skin of Evil" has a Stardate of 41601.3 and Season 2's opener, "The Child," is 42073.1.
A change of 472 "stardate units." If 1,000 stardate units represents a single solar year -there little indication it does, though most mentions of time passing seems to suggest that it does. Then 2.7 stardate units comprises 1 day. This means 174 days passed, or between 5 and 6 months, between Tasha's death and "The Child." If I'm not too much mistaken there's some implication in "The Child" that Guinan is new on the ship, her conversation with Wesley as he ponders his fate out the windows, suggests they've never spoken before and Wesley acts as if he doesn't know her.
So, given around three years pass between Guinan coming on board and the events of the "Redemption" two-parter it's probably okay for Picard to fuzzy up 6-months into "a year" to talk of the time that has passed between Yar's death and Guinan's arrival.
As noted above the original designs for the ship actually had the saucer-rim only one deck thick, but this was slightly retconed -behind the scenes- to effectively make it two-decks thick. I believe this was done without too much altering the size of the saucer section, just the thickness of the rim now being two decks rather than one, but the saucer isn't one deck thicker. Things were just shifted around. Fuzzy math and fuzzy architecture may have been used.
There wasn't meant to be a lounge like 10-Forward, it was assumed there were many lounges throughout the ship. But it does make sense there'd be something of a "central point" everyone would go to and the room with the best view would make the most sense. But in reality, 10-Fwd probably should have been a lot bigger given how many people the E-D can supposedly accommodate.
The idea was for this rim of the saucer to be one deck-thick and not have any rooms in it. Rather, it was basically one long hallway of sorts with seating, tables and other things of that sort. It was supposed to be dark to allow for a better view out the windows (and, also, because the limitations of the model precluded the saucer rim from being able to be lit) with the windows on the top and bottom separated by the wall segment which was supposed to be the sensor strip on the outside and either a blank wall, or maybe some-sort of data/stellar-cartographical information on the inside.) I think this idea was considered being put into use when they were allowed to build a new set but it was felt the windows couldn't be used dramatically enough for the show. The lower window in most shots would be out of frame so otherwise useless from a TV standpoint and this would make the top window smaller and not give as much of dramatic view with the streaking stars at warp and for various things happening out the ship. It was felt a large set of windows would be more visually interesting.
So the deck-plans were rejiggered. Unfortuantly the model being used didn't have a set of windows on the front that matched 10-Fwd, creating a bit of a discontinuity. When the smaller 4-foot model(s) was built to allow for easier filming it was built with a slightly thicker rim and with the appropriate type of window arrangement to allow for a 10-Fwd, as well as them being lit.
Thanks, everyone! I knew this was the right place to ask the question. You've given me all the information I needed. 
The shape of the windows is right, but size-wise the interior of Ten Forward is about double what "should" fit there.
Except that there are three windows on the set, and only two on the original 6 ft model.
Well, the ship is big enough that one pub should not meet her needs. So nothing about the 10-Forward facility specifically is necessary - merely the existence of sufficient pubs, of which more must be around somewhere.
In terms of the size of the ship, that is. In terms of her mere 1000 crew/passengers, just one facility might well do. But Kirk used to have rather massive recreation resources aboard his TOS and movie ships, for just 400-500 hard-working people who supposedly didn't have kids and spouses idling aboard.
Hmm. No matter how many windows on the forward rim of the ship originally or later on, one would think the bowmost ones would have been dedicated to some special use relating to the great view. The odd fact that the first season omits formal or informal receptions taking advantage of the view might suggest that the original use was different - perhaps the place was instrumented, or reserved for top officers who didn't want to be disturbed by ambassadorial riffraff, or held a spa, or something. Yet since we do know from dialogue that a place called 10-Forward was there at launch already, we can only deduce that it was too rowdy for guest tours until Guinan came aboard, with her soft talk and big gun...
Timo Saloniemi
Starborn Dragon
Captain
Now if only we can find the bowling alley.
In the Whitefire blueprints of the original ship concepts, the grid of square windows at the top/back of the saucer were intended to be for a nightclub/casino type of facility. They dropped that idea and what was behind those windows was never mentioned on screen.
Well, it made the squares glow blue, unlike any other window, porthole or skylight on the ship. A series of warp cores, perhaps? That's about the only thing putting out that particular color.
As the model already sports something like two or perhaps three windows per crewman, assigning random functions to random portholes should be uncomplicated enough...
Timo Saloniemi
As the model already sports something like two or perhaps three windows per crewman, assigning random functions to random portholes should be uncomplicated enough...
Timo Saloniemi
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