Ted Cruz Uses the Thought Maker on Shatner

[Dryson]

Ted Cruz tries to use the thought maker from the TNG episode "The Battle" to make Trek Fans believe he is a fan as well as Shatner a Republican -

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/william-shatner-ted-cruz-calling-kirk-republican-silly?cid=sm_fb_msnbc

It's obvious Cruz isn't a fan of Star Trek because he would have known the outcome of his actions using the "Thought Maker."

Red Alert!!!

 

[Captain Rob]

I didn't see the term "Thought Maker" anywhere in this article.
I tend to agree with what both gentlemen said.
I think the term "Mind Sifter" or "Mind Ripper" would be suited for anything related to MSNBC. That is one channel that I wish I could delete from my cable package.

 

[T'Girl]

Cruz “Kirk is working class; Picard is an aristocrat. Kirk is a passionate fighter for justice; Picard is a cerebral philosopher. The original ‘Star Trek’ pressed for racial equality, which was one of its best characteristics, but it did so without sermonizing.”

TOS did "sermonize" on occasion, Kirk's were more short and to the point, and lacked Picard's long winded delivery. Cruz does seem to have a good basic knowledge of Trek.

Setting aside Shatner's personal politics, Captain Kirk's politics could be seen as generally moderate right of center on the American political scale. Maybe conservative in a few places.

Shatner's tweet that "Star Trek wasn't political" makes no sense.

https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/status/624290094942433280

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Cruz
Setting aside Shatner's personal politics, Captain Kirk's politics could be seen as generally moderate right of center on the American political scale. Maybe conservative in a few places.

Shatner's tweet that "Star Trek wasn't political" makes no sense.

https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/status/624290094942433280

"Star Trek" was a fairly liberal, progressive show for the 1960s. My initial thought when I read Cruz's comments was: "Did he even watch the show?"

Captain Kirk was all about upsetting the status quo. He always interfered to help the disenfranchised, especially if they had a computer overlord .

In "A Piece of the Action," he takes down an institution that exploits the working class and then redistributes the wealth for social and infrastructure programs.

Kirk may have been a dutiful soldier but he was hardly conservative in action. However, being liberal and a dutiful solider aren't mutually exclusive. Even JFK was a war hero. And Kirk was one-part Hornblower and one-part Kennedy, even Ron D. Moore thinks so.

As for the differences between Kirk and Picard, I've always thought about it this way:

James Kirk was Captain Horatio Hornblower — young, adventurous and daring.

Jean-Luc Picard was Admiral Lord Horatio Hornblower — older, wiser and tempered.

 

[Melakon]

Cruz is only fishing for what he thinks is the gullible Trekkie vote.

 

[Cyke101]

Cruz is only basing his claims on rather weak caricatures of Kirk and Picard. A random episode about either of them would reveal so much more than the shirt-ripping womanizing man of action Kirk or the philosophical reluctant to shoot Picard.

 

[t_smitts]

Hearing him say that just left a bad taste in my mouth. Fan of the show or not, this is not a guy who believes in most of the things Star Trek stands for: i.e. diplomacy, equality, infinite diversity, etc.

And Picard, for obvious reasons, is not a Democrat, Republican, or any other American political party.

 

[The Lensman]

Did Kirk use the Cestus 3 incident to plunge the Federation into an uneeded war? No? Then he wasn't a Republican.

 

[suarezguy]

I think it's at least fair that Kirk was more of a fighter for and less conflicted or apologetic about his values and, although the claim is somewhat crude, that TNG somewhat split him up into Picard and Riker.

It's certainly bizarre for Shatner to insist the series wasn't political, maybe he thought Cruz wasn't being serious and so he should also be glib in response.

"Star Trek" was a fairly liberal, progressive show for the 1960s. My initial thought when I read Cruz's comments was: "Did he even watch the show?"

Captain Kirk was all about upsetting the status quo. He always interfered to help the disenfranchised, especially if they had a computer overlord .

He was, however, anti-Communist; the original series Klingons have been considered to be analogous to the Soviets and the computer-run and drug-using societies seem to be critiques of corrupted utopias in general, the episodes warnings that utopias can often end up that way.

Hearing him say that just left a bad taste in my mouth. Fan of the show or not, this is not a guy who believes in most of the things Star Trek stands for: i.e. diplomacy, equality, infinite diversity, etc.

He seems generally supportive of equality and diversity although with some clear blind spots.

 

[Hound of UIster]

It's unfortunate and regrettable that Kirk did not take the opportunity in TUC to bring real liberal democracy to the Klingon Empire and end any potential attempts at weaponizing the Genesis Weapon.

If Kirk was indeed a Republican, the Dominion War probably would never have happened.

 

[t_smitts]

I think it's at least fair that Kirk was more of a fighter for and less conflicted or apologetic about his values and, although the claim is somewhat crude, that TNG somewhat split him up into Picard and Riker.

It's certainly bizarre for Shatner to insist the series wasn't political, maybe he thought Cruz wasn't being serious and so he should also be glib in response.

"Star Trek" was a fairly liberal, progressive show for the 1960s. My initial thought when I read Cruz's comments was: "Did he even watch the show?"

Captain Kirk was all about upsetting the status quo. He always interfered to help the disenfranchised, especially if they had a computer overlord .

He was, however, anti-Communist; the original series Klingons have been considered to be analogous to the Soviets and the computer-run and drug-using societies seem to be critiques of corrupted utopias in general, the episodes warnings that utopias can often end up that way.

Hearing him say that just left a bad taste in my mouth. Fan of the show or not, this is not a guy who believes in most of the things Star Trek stands for: i.e. diplomacy, equality, infinite diversity, etc.

He seems generally supportive of equality and diversity although with some clear blind spots.

The Klingons may have been an analogy for communists, but only in the sense of being an "evil empire" that lacked any concept of freedom. Functionally speaking, the idea of numerous conquered worlds, which are poorly treated, sounds more akin to fascism. (Interestingly, Ron Moore's note for "Sins of the Father" suggest most worlds within the Empire are quite content with their status, perhaps suggesting Klingons at some point later learned that treating your client worlds better discourages unrest).

One could even ague that, with its lack of money as we know it and a large, centralized government, that the UFP was a rather communist state. I'm not saying I agree with that. I'm just making a point.

The original series also, in retrospect, showed a lack of any accountability as to the consequences of overthrowing all these sovereign states, however totalitarian they might be. There's no guarantee that what would fill the vacuum would be any more "free" than before (as we saw in the case of the mirror universe). Unfortunately, that kind of thing had a long real-life precedent.

And as for those "blind spots" Cruz has with respect to equality, they can be pretty unpleasant if you or someone you care about is situated within them. He also doesn't seem to notice that a number of the arguments he's been making lately were also made a few years ago by other politicians, whose blind spots included some OTHER minorities.

 

[T'Girl]

One could even ague that, with its lack of money as we know it and a large, centralized government, that the UFP was a rather communist state.

Briefly walking around the supposed lack of money, from where do you get the idea that the Federation governance is large and central? I would imagine with their advanced information systems that the Federation's bureaucracy would be small and quite efficient. The whole thing might be a few tens of thousands of people.

If Kirk was indeed a Republican, the Dominion War probably would never have happened.

Hmmm, Kirk and the Dominion War are well separated in time.

James Kirk was Captain Horatio Hornblower — young, adventurous and daring.

Jean-Luc Picard was Admiral Lord Horatio Hornblower — older, wiser and tempered.

Young Hornblower was faithful to his first wife, older Hornblower cheated on his second wife.

 

[Firebird]

Cruz is an insipid blowhard of an idiot, and the last thing I want him to do is get his stink on Star Trek. I don't feel comfortable with him trying to appropriate any character in the series to fit his warped sense of what a Republican is.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

James Kirk was Captain Horatio Hornblower — young, adventurous and daring.

Jean-Luc Picard was Admiral Lord Horatio Hornblower — older, wiser and tempered.

Young Hornblower was faithful to his first wife, older Hornblower cheated on his second wife.

Hornblower married Maria out of pity and really didn't quite know how to get out of it. He stayed with her out of his own strict sense of duty. And it's implied that Hornblower got typhus from the countess in "The Commodore," but was it said outright in the book? (It's been a number of years since I've read it.)

In any case, it's shown more often than not how much in love Hornblower is to Lady Barbara.

Regardless, I was speaking to Hornblower's approach to women in my comparison. I was speaking more along in terms of their approach in their careers.

 

[Shawnster]

"Star Trek" was a fairly liberal, progressive show for the 1960s. My initial thought when I read Cruz's comments was: "Did he even watch the show?"

Captain Kirk was all about upsetting the status quo. He always interfered to help the disenfranchised, especially if they had a computer overlord .

In "A Piece of the Action," he takes down an institution that exploits the working class and then redistributes the wealth for social and infrastructure programs.

Kirk may have been a dutiful soldier but he was hardly conservative in action. However, being liberal and a dutiful solider aren't mutually exclusive. Even JFK was a war hero. And Kirk was one-part Hornblower and one-part Kennedy, even Ron D. Moore thinks so.

Trek may have been liberal, but there is room for conservative characters aboard the Enterprise.

Kirk upset foreign political regimes. Republican/conservatives politicians and administrations are likewise credited with destabilizing or upsetting foreign political regimes. Vietnam, Panama, Granada, Cuba, Iraq.

Kirk regularly interfered with the internal affairs of non Federation members and worlds. He seemed to think it was his duty to force Federation values and ideals upon cultures that did not share those same values.

Kirk even went so far as to arm one primitive village so they could fight another primitive village.

Did Kirk use the Cestus 3 incident to plunge the Federation into an uneeded war? No? Then he wasn't a Republican.

Let's not confuse Kirk with a politician. Kirk was a soldier. The politicians use incidents to plunge nations into unneeded war.

He was, however, anti-Communist; the original series Klingons have been considered to be analogous to the Soviets and the computer-run and drug-using societies seem to be critiques of corrupted utopias in general, the episodes warnings that utopias can often end up that way.

In Omega Glory Kirk seems pleased that William White Cloud and the Yangs (Yankees) finally overthrew the Khoms (Communists). He was quite the flag waver and able to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, including the line about "one nation under God."

Kirk was definitely not inclusive about the Klingons in Star Trek VI. At least, not at the beginning. "Let them die. I'll never forgive them for the death of my boy."

Kirk, a soldier and not a diplomat, seemed to favor a strong military.

 

[E-DUB]

I think if JTK were alive in 20th/21st century America I think he would have been a "Vote the man, not the party" kind of guy. I can see him voting for Eisenhower, certainly JFK, probably Ford, Possibly GHW Bush over Clinton, Gore and Kerry over GW Bush, McCain over Obama but Obama over Romney.

And, frankly, I'm surprised that Cruz didn't allude to Picard's French origins.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

He was, however, anti-Communist; the original series Klingons have been considered to be analogous to the Soviets and the computer-run and drug-using societies seem to be critiques of corrupted utopias in general, the episodes warnings that utopias can often end up that way.

In Omega Glory Kirk seems pleased that William White Cloud and the Yangs (Yankees) finally overthrew the Khoms (Communists). He was quite the flag waver and able to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, including the line about "one nation under God."

Kirk was definitely not inclusive about the Klingons in Star Trek VI. At least, not at the beginning. "Let them die. I'll never forgive them for the death of my boy."

Kirk, a soldier and not a diplomat, seemed to favor a strong military.

You've mistakenly misquoted here. That's not my quote. That's suarezguy's statement, responding to my post. See below:

"Star Trek" was a fairly liberal, progressive show for the 1960s. My initial thought when I read Cruz's comments was: "Did he even watch the show?"

Captain Kirk was all about upsetting the status quo. He always interfered to help the disenfranchised, especially if they had a computer overlord .

He was, however, anti-Communist; the original series Klingons have been considered to be analogous to the Soviets and the computer-run and drug-using societies seem to be critiques of corrupted utopias in general, the episodes warnings that utopias can often end up that way.

 

[Mark 2000]

Cruz's biggest screw up is calling Kirk "working class" and Picard an "aristocrat". That's really a very stupid interpretation that doesn't look at the history of the characters. Kirk was an Iowa farm boy, but Picard was a French farm boy who's father wouldn't allow a replicator in the house.

Kirk was a grim bookworm and intellectual - just as much as Picard. Both were self made men who came from very little. Both were much smarter than Ted Cruz.

 

[Cyke101]

It's certainly bizarre for Shatner to insist the series wasn't political, maybe he thought Cruz wasn't being serious and so he should also be glib in response.

I'm wondering if Shatner used the term "political" in terms of party, ie "Star Trek was never a Republican or Democrat show" or something like that.

Though it can't be denied that Star Trek very often dealt with topics and issues of the day, with a strong bend towards social justice and humanism.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Cruz is an insipid blowhard of an idiot, and the last thing I want him to do is get his stink on Star Trek.

Sucks when you find out something you think should be exclusively yours doesn't really belong to you at all, doesn't it.

Not to mention, you'd better turn in your little IDIC pin.