TAS’ Beyond The Farthest Star alien ship...

[Maurice]

How many “invisible” non-Romulan ships were on the show? Bele’s craft sure. The Thasian whatever it was is so outside Federation normal that I suspect it wasn’t so much invisible as it just sort of materialized. Spock said their sensors show something's there, but the deflectors indicated no solid substance.

Were there any others?

 

[Henoch]

Apparently, passive sensors detect/analyze incoming electromagnetic radiation (visible light, x-rays, gamma rays, infrared, ultraviolet, etc.), and if in active mode (transmitting/receiving scanning signals from reflections), more detailed information is gained. A separate system, active deflectors detect solid matter (and maybe long range masses via a subspace radar, technology similar to subspace radio).

 

[Timo]

How many “invisible” non-Romulan ships were on the show? Bele’s craft sure. The Thasian whatever it was is so outside Federation normal that I suspect it wasn’t so much invisible as it just sort of materialized. Spock said their sensors show something's there, but the deflectors indicated no solid substance.

Were there any others?

In TOS, rather than TOS+TAS? Ships appearing from nowhere are a matter of definition. The "Errand of Mercy" vessel would seem to count, as it gets really proximal when it has no right to. Other ships that cannot be easily brought into view, such as the Gorn in "Arena", may simply be too far away ("at the edge of our sensor range", like the Klingon scout in "Friday's Child"). But this is highly debatable as the Gorn do manage to fire on our heroes pretty much immediately.

As for the "Friday's Child" scout, it wouldn't surprise me if it actually was cloaked when our heroes arrived - it was supposed to have brought Kras the Discount Klingon to the planet, after all, and would have had little reason to leave before the heroes arrived, at which point it would be too late unless they could become invisible!

Apart from those, it seems to be only the superbeings that can become invisible at will. Until TAS, that is.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Henoch]

Ships appearing from nowhere are a matter of definition. The "Errand of Mercy" vessel would seem to count, as it gets really proximal when it has no right to.

Since Kirk orders, "Phaser banks, lock on. Return fire. Maintain firing rate. One hundred percent dispersal pattern." This harks back to the battle with the cloaked Romulan ship where they used "proximity blast"; they even used to same FX in the ship action. Good evidence that the Klingon ship was cloaked.

Other ships that cannot be easily brought into view, such as the Gorn in "Arena", may simply be too far away ("at the edge of our sensor range", like the Klingon scout in "Friday's Child"). But this is highly debatable as the Gorn do manage to fire on our heroes pretty much immediately.

The Gorns laid an ambush. I like to think that their ship was just either hiding on the other side of the planet or behind the planet's moon (probably the former), and zipped out suddenly and started shooting. TNG showed that ships are not detectable hiding at the magnetic poles of a planet, so, another possibility. Once ambushed, the Enterprise had no problem tracking and targeting the Gorn ship, so, good evidence that the Gorn ship was not cloaked.

 

[Timo]

Klingons don't actually fight under cloak, except in TUC. Even in DSC, their ability to frustrate Starfleet depended on multi-ship action, with some ships cloaking and others decloaking in turn. And that worked fine even when the motion trackers could give approximate positions. It was deadly in DS9 where the sensors no longer could do that.

In "Errand", I gather the Klingons would have decloaked in a fairly small and weak vessel, and those don't expect to survive, so they wouldn't re-cloak, either. But Kirk would aimlessly flay at a merely previously invisible enemy since taking aim takes time...

But yes, ambushes of other sorts are possible as well, and the Gorn probably didn't cloak (or else they would have, instead of being a visible if blurry dot between their volleys). Stealth devices that achieve partial results might still be used by various enemies. And all of those that don't fool the Mk I Eyeball in the process would go unnoticed by the audience. Perhaps sensor stealth is relatively common, but so seldom extends to the visual spectrum that the Klingon system in "The Vulcan Hello" still confuses the hell out of our heroes?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Henoch]

Adding on from Friday's Child, the Klingon scout ship had no problems staying out of sight and using deception (false distress signals). The only time Enterprise detects the Klingon ship is only when the Klingons decided to be seen like when first "detected" as an unknown ship at the edge of sensor range, then disappears. Scott assumes it just went outside sensor range, though. The next time the Klingons decide to be seen is when suddenly blocking the Enterprise's return to the planet. At this point, Sulu says, "Phaser banks are ready, sir." Nothing about photon torpedoes, so, is Sulu planning a battle with phaser proximity blasts, again? Positive but weaker evidence that the Klingon scout ship was cloaked.

 

[Shawnster]

Dialog helps distinguish between invisible and simply not depicted. I believe the Gorn ship was simply not depicted. Same for the Medusan ship. At least not before TOS-R. In Arena they knew where the Gorn ship was, when it activated transporters, etc...

 

[Maurice]

I think if the ships were intended to be invisible as per Bele’s then they’d have been described thusly.

 

[Mytran]

Authorial intention is usually far in the distance when it comes how Trek gets depicted on screen

 

[Maurice]

Perhaps but that does not make true speculation that ships not identified as invisible are that.

For instance, the Klingon ship in "Friday's Child" could simply have greater sensor range than the Enterprise or the Klingons just know the Enterprise's effective sensor range, got out from the planet well past it, sends a phony distress call, then zips off at an angle so the Enterprise won't find it when it comes looking. Rinse, repeat. That's effectively invisible without being actually invisible.

 

[Timo]

Very true. It's merely serendipity that Klingon antics in TOS are so nicely consistent with their cloaking-based antics in the other shows. It doesn't appear that the writers of ST3:TSfS were thinking of "Friday's Child", say, or those of "A Matter of Honor" of "Errand of Mercy". It's just that what we get out of it all is "a Klingon thing", a consistent approach to tactics and technology.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BK613]

If the Klingons had cloaks during TOS, you would think the flintlock mission in "A Private Little War" would occasioned its use. Instead, we have the Enterprise doing its version of what Maurice describes above (hiding behind the planet and otherwise avoiding detection.)

 

[Timo]

...Meaning the Klingons don't realize they should be activating their cloak.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[FormerLurker]

By the time of later TNG the implication is no longer the Romulan/Klingon ships are invisible to instruments and visual sight, but the ships are actually no longer in normal space. TNG cloaking show the ships can actually pass through solid objects. Such a capability makes the ship practically indestructible because incoming energy beams and torpedoes would just pass right through you. In BoT and TUC an invisible ship could still be hit even if cloaked.

I thought the "Phase Cloak", as they called it, was unique to the device tested on (and In) The Pegasus.

 

[johnnybear]

It's a good argument I agree but in TOS the cloak was the Romulan's invention and apart from Bele's ship which was bathed in invisible properties that was the only ship I can recall that was invisible rather than using technology! The other ships mentioned like the Phasian one might not have even had a physical presence let alone anything else! Any mentions of a cloaked Klingon ship in DSC is not relevant!
JB

 

[Poltargyst]

I thought the "Phase Cloak", as they called it, was unique to the device tested on (and In) The Pegasus.

I agree. That wasn't typical cloaking device behavior in TNG.

 

[Warped9]

Pertaining to the original subject matter.

This ship looks rather chaotic from a human perspective particularly without any idea how it’s supposed to be laid out or what purpose each pod serves. Considering the size of the ship and the distance each vine spans the vines must serve some other functions than simple access from one pod to another.

It also strikes me as strange that each pod is implied to be essentially one very large empty space. Weird even if the crew were on average about twice the size of humans.

There also looks to be very little direct access from one pod to another. In many if not most cases getting from one pod to another requires a rather long and roundabout path. As such one wonders if this could say something about the social structure or hierachy of the beings who built this ship. Perhaps they were highly structured and segregated, limiting easy access from one part of the ship to another.

 

[Timo]

Or perhaps this is what they wish to impose upon those they capture aboard this purpose-built zooship?

The only crewed spaces might be those behind the tripetal hexagon doors, serving utility functions to match their looks, while the spongy open spaces are for housing the specimen. There's quite a disconnect between the two looks, after all.

But can we trust Scotty when he claims the whole ship is built to receive and store energy? Is that an incidental quality, like the ability of a propeller to slice and dice is to a seagoing ship, or are we in fact witnessing flypaper specifically designed to catch energy beings like the monster of the week? The ship does keep on doing this energy sapping, effectively disarming our heroes even though ultimately failing to stop their escape via transporter. Again, its intended purpose or an incidental effect?

Spock sees a beehive. Doesn't mean it was built by the bees...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

The landing party had very little time to do a complete study and assessment of the ship. And then the entity destroyed the vessel thus eliminating any further investigation. As such the crew as well as us are left to speculation.

 

[Warped9]

It could be considered odd the landing beamed onto the exterior of the ship rather than directly inside right off. Of course, storywise it shows off the life-support belts as they beam onto the exterior hull in open space.

I thought I read somewhere the life-support belts were originally conceived during TOS, but they opted out because of the vfx involved opposed to using a spacesuit. It’s a very sci-fi idea although I’m not sure how it could really work in more real world terms. Could an energy field really keep air contained within the field? How is the air provided and where is it stored? The belt alone doesn’t look large enough to store a decent air supply. How can you possibly touch or manipulate anything not within the field with you? For that matter how can you even walk as there would be an energy barrier between you and whatever surface you’re standing on?