Takei wanted Sulu to be Captain in Trek V

[JonnyQuest037]

During TOS I believe the story is that the producers wanted to capitalize on the success of the Beatles, etc.
So they introduced a character that even looked like a member of such a band.
It was the attempt of fishing in their pool of fans for new viewers?

They were more inspired by Davy Jones on The Monkees, which was a big success in its first season. That's why they cast Koenig, because he looked a bit like Jones. Having a teen idol type on Star Trek who took off the way that Davy Jones did on The Monkees (or the way that David McCallum did as the Russian Illya Kuryakin on The Man From U.N.C.L.E. a couple of years before) certainly wouldn't have hurt ratings.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Ok, got the band wrong then.

 

[Herbert]

Exactly, which is why Walter Koenig didn't want to point out the mistake of having Chekov and Khan remember each other in TWOK when the Chekov character hadn't yet been introduced at the time of "Space Seed." He realized how easy it would've been for them to just write Chekov out of those scenes and replace him with one of the other supporting characters. And Koenig didn't want to lose out on a substantial role, so he stayed quiet.

And heck, something similar happened in Generations. The character of Demora Sulu was originally written to be Chekov's daughter, but they changed it to Sulu's daughter when they got Koenig and James Doohan to sub for Leonard Nimoy and DeForest Kelley. It shows you just how arbitrary and interchangeable most of the supporting characters were.

Fixed it for you.

Chequeov

 

[plynch]

Sulu really got eclipsed after early S1. There was the drift away from showing the life of the crew. And his being gone for Green Berets. Which must have seemed like the right move. But it gave us a bunch of shows with the charismatic Koenig and no Sulu.

I read the Greenberg anecdote. Funny. Reminds me of Sinfeld, "I'm the Wiz!"

 

[Vger23]

I think Sulu did pretty good in the later films. Quite honestly, the dialogue he has in the “emergency shuttle crash” sequence in TFF, as well as the look he exchanges with Kirk, is amongst the funniest and wittiest in the film. Then he gets to be Captain Sulu in TUC, where it was actually useful and integrated to the story. As others have pointed out, he had a wonderful scene in TVH which was scrapped because the child actor was unable to perform.

 

[trekshark]

One telling anecdote about Takei is that he absolutely hated the "don't call me tiny scene". That is, until he saw the audience's reaction in the theatre. He thought it made fun of his character, which shows he doesn't really get it.

I always thought it showed that Sulu could be a bad ass when needed.

 

[Smellmet]

I think Sulu did pretty good in the later films. Quite honestly, the dialogue he has in the “emergency shuttle crash” sequence in TFF, as well as the look he exchanges with Kirk, is amongst the funniest and wittiest in the film. Then he gets to be Captain Sulu in TUC, where it was actually useful and integrated to the story. As others have pointed out, he had a wonderful scene in TVH which was scrapped because the child actor was unable to perform.

I thought he was great in TUC. Serious and badass.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I always though the “hey Bill, I get to be a captain!” was going into TUC and Shatner said, “but all the action takes place on the Enterprise.” However, both ended up being correct. The crew of the Enterprise got most of the screen time, but Sulu had a much more substantial part in TUC than he probably would have otherwise. He would have wound up being yet another doofus looking for gravity boots.

The “feud” is obviously one-sided. Shatner couldn’t care less at this point about the feelings of a day player he had very little on set time with over the last 54 years. George was simply a co-worker he never really did much with. Takei acts like they spent 20 years on the same show every day together. These supporting actors convincined thesmelves Star Trek was an ensemble series until Shatner ruined it. Jesus.

Also, Takei can’t accuse Shatner of not caring about his needs as an actor and then say he’s keeping this thing alive at the same time. Shatner just wants to perform, breed and ride horses and do appearances. Shatner doesn’t need the press or the money of a feud. Takei, on the other hand, needs attention. And a nap, apparently.

 

[Tomalak]

In one of the Inglorious Trekspert pods there was an anecdote from Ben Robinson about Takei which really sums it up - to paraphrase, he said he was interviewing Takei and was desperate to think of something new to ask him.

In response to this, Takei said "I don't remember being on Star Trek. I remember telling the stories about being on Star Trek."

It was three years work half a century ago. It's all a well-honed act at this point, so far removed from any kernel of truth.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Seriously, I agree with that because my own life is made up of twice told stories and anecdotes of specific events. I can't honestly remember the day to day of my time working in retail or grade school or even most of my life. Who remembers this stuff? It's all a bunch of crap and if Takei can't remember working on the series than Shatner sure as hell won't remember working with a part timer on a series 50+ years ago.

 

[Pauln6]

I too remember very little from 50 years ago.

 

[Tomalak]

I struggle to remember last week.

 

[SolarisOne]

I struggle to remember last week.

What were we talking about, again?

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

In one of the Inglorious Trekspert pods there was an anecdote from Ben Robinson about Takei which really sums it up - to paraphrase, he said he was interviewing Takei and was desperate to think of something new to ask him.

In response to this, Takei said "I don't remember being on Star Trek. I remember telling the stories about being on Star Trek."

It was three years work half a century ago. It's all a well-honed act at this point, so far removed from any kernel of truth.

This sorta sums up a lot of discussion @Maurice and I have had about memory, the re-telling of anecdotes, and how removed from the actual factual events it can be.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

This sorta sums up a lot of discussion @Maurice and I have had about memory, the re-telling of anecdotes, and how removed from the actual factual events it can be.

Yes. I remember reading an interview with Seth, the autobiographical cartoonist, in The Comics Journal years back. (He's friends with two other guys who also do autobiographical comics, Joe Matt and Chester Brown, and they all appear in each other's comics.) Seth said that if he was illustrating an incident from his own life that wasn't particularly memorable to begin with, the comics version began to supplant the real version in his memory. I'm sure it's the same way with a well-honed story that you tell over and over at conventions. And when you're talking about something that occurred years or even decades ago...

 

[Maurice]

It's worth noting that in the TWOK script Chekov wasn't even the first officer. He was just an officer on the ship. They added his First Officer's log in post production, thus "promoting" him. (In an earlier script it was Beech who was the Reliant's Captain, Terrell was aboard attached to the Genesis project. Beech's dialog about giving them "more time" is a leftover from him being the Capt.)

 

[Ghel]

I always thought that Takei's insistence on promoting Sulu for "believability" was kind of silly. Either A. Sulu remains a helmsman forever (not super realistic) or B. Sulu gets command but then his ship is always in the vicinity of the Enterprise and helping out (also not realistic..especially seeing how infrequently the Enterprise encounters ANY other ship in most situations). It makes sense in STVI but would have been really reaching had he gotten "Command" at the end of Wrath of Khan as originally intended. While he accuses Shatner of intentionally flubbing the lines at the end of WoK, that flub probably kept his character in the subsequent movies.

I saw Takei as wanting to be Captain as more a symptom of his own ego more than anything... which is rather interesting since it's the character flaw he most attacks in Shatner.

 

[Tomalak]

Even if the line had been left in TWOK, TSFS would have played out the same. Perhaps Sulu would have been placed in the Styles position of having to 'bring in' Kirk, in which case he would have missed out on the fun in TVH.

 

[valkyrie013]

2,3,4 doesn't lend well to a captain sulu, he would have missed out on much of 3 and all of 4. Could have kept the line in 2, and in 5 say he's waiting for a captaincy berth to open since his original was given to someone else. And when Excellsior went from test ship to fully operational Sulu was at the top of the list.
5 May have worked with 2 ships , might be a good Fan writing subject.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I totally get George’s desire to have his character promoted to Captain. Even though it takes a chance of being written out of the series, his character was underused in the films. Sulu was a glorified extra in Star Trek II, had one nice bit of business in III and had his main bit written out because of the unresponsive child actor in IV. He had slightly more screen time in V and even though he had that joke scene with Chekov, he did have a great physical moment in the failed rescue attempt and that “actually it’s my first attempt” and crash sequence. Ironic that the man Takei can’t stop hating on gave him his best business up to that point. Takei and therefore Sulu were really effective in VI. Excelsior was far enough away for it to take a lot of movie time for him to arrive to help Enterprise, so that made sense. It was nice to see a supporting character evolve. Chekov was apparently so shell shocked during the events of TWOK that he never wanted to leave the navigator station, but he had command of the Enterprise for the only time in V. Uhura was more than happy to answer phones, but again, Shatner’s film gave her some pilot duties which never happened in the films otherwise.

Ya know, maybe they oughtta get off his back.