Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Infern0, Oct 13, 2013.



  1. I prefer the Wrath of Khan

    110 vote(s)
  2. I Prefer Into Darkness

    17 vote(s)
  3. I like them both the same

    25 vote(s)
  1. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Nov 5, 2008
    Indeed. Those who think episodes like "The Inner Light" are the apex of Trek are in the wrong place. You're never going to get that from a Trek movie, let alone one based on TOS.
    Indeed. It's how the show was conceived and how it works best.
    The fandom has deliberated but decided that bitching and moaning is easier than altering one's expectations.:lol:
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I wish we would have never gotten it from TNG. I find The Inner Light incredibly shallow and philosophically empty.

    "But he played a flute at the end!"

  3. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

    Apr 28, 2007
    Outer Graceland
    There's lots of action-adventure out there. Watch Die Hard 13 or something.

    ST was action-adventure PLUS. Plus heart and character, humanity, what-ifs, moral conundrums, big speeches, superego-Kirk embracing id-Kirk, "getting" the Horta, not killing the Gorn, McCoy and Spock burying the hatchet when Kirk's lost in the Tholian web, etc. etc. Yes heavy-handed sometimes, but beautiful at others. I just watched "This Side of Paradise" and the scene in the transporter room with Spock and Leila is really touching. It wasn't just action-adventure, and there's good evidence GR ramped that angle up in response to the network (though "Cage" has action fo sho).

    There's way more heart and humanity in TWOK than STID imho. Both have action adventure. TWOK is a great blend/balance, thus its being many people's favorite.

    Though I'm not a JJTrek fan, I'll grant you 09 had heart and more character. I agree with those above who think ID is a regression from '09.
  4. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Nov 5, 2008
    I know point-by-point replies can be annoying, but this had me going "but... but... but...!"
    I know I won't change your opinion, but I want to offer my two cents.
    What-Ifs like Khan being awoken under completely different circumstances? That's applying Trek's formula to one of it's own greatest creations.
    Thomas Harewood's choice at the start of movie, putting his daughter above all else.
    Kirk conundrum - should he follow orders and get revenge by nuking Khan from space or go down and arrest him?
    Like Kirk's terrorism/revenge speech at the rechristening of the Enterprise a year after the crash.
    Spock realizing that he can't shut out his emotions. That shutting out fear and pain means shutting out love as well.
    Understanding Khan's need to save his crew. Seeing him as more than the enemy.
    Kirk not executing Khan from space in violation of orders.
    Spock realizing Kirk's deep friendship... as he dies.
    I honestly thought ID has the most heart of any Trek movie. It wasn't perfect, but it meant well and had a LOT more to it than Die Hard and it's ilk.
  5. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

    Apr 28, 2007
    Outer Graceland
    King Daniel, thank you for trying. Perhaps I forget too much about the film because I do not care for its style (a matter of taste, that) and the unnecessary Khan redux.

    "No text can withstand a negative reading" or some such. Predisposed to dislike it, I do perhaps ignore its strengths. I'm not likely to rewatch it though, so my loss. But you give it a good defense.
  6. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Sep 27, 2013
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    I don't know about regression; I think maybe it's more that STID made the mistake of actually encouraging a side-by-side comparison between itself and the best film of the original franchise. An overconfident call, perhaps the honeymoon-phase reviews of ST09 went to the creative team's heads.

    Altering one's expectations? :rommie:

    (Sorry, I mean, altering one's expectations?)
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  7. ichab

    ichab Commodore Commodore

    Jan 28, 2010
    Oh please :rolleyes:

    It's not callous, it's human nature. Most people aren't going to have the same emotions for someone they knew for a year as they would someone they've known all their life. No one is saying they wouldn't feel anything, but the feelings would be much different.

    Not surprised by the results in this poll as I am that anyone actually thought this was a real competition. STID was a decent flick, but nowhere near in the same league as TWOK.