SyFy response to the cancellation

[AJ86]

You were talking about critics contradicting themselves. Now you're talking about the ones that contradict me.

No, I was talking about critics contradicting you:

Besides, there are critics far more talented and far more detached from fandom (and therefore bias) than you who reach often contradictory (especially in the case of the acting) conclusions than yours, so why should we accept your supposed 'truth' and not theirs?

Besides I'm not sure where the distinction lies, I thought you were an 'objective critic' yourself?

There was no point here either.

There was, and I think I made it pretty clear. If critique from people who know what they're talking about is objective then critics wouldn't disagree. There'd be a truth that they'd all reach, which of course they don't.

If all you're looking for is a contradictory statement to my own I'm sure you'll find it but the reality is most reviews for SGU have pretty much evaporated.The show became so much less relevant as it proceeded. News Outlets stopped covering it because it was truly a waste of time because it was generating no buzz and that was before the cancellation order went out.

Unless all you're talking about are the massive mainstream outlets, then that couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Saquist]

No, I was talking about critics contradicting you:

Then I stand corrected.
It initially read as though you were talking about differing critiques.

There was, and I think I made it pretty clear. If critique from people who know what they're talking about is objective then critics wouldn't disagree. There'd be a truth that they'd all reach, which of course they don't.

Firstly critics don't adhere to a standard and they don't have to be journalist or writers to be critics or even be familiar with proper plot construction. What is clear is that there were quite a few critics that did observe the plot errors and the weak resolution, some calling it "safe" or simple.

Unless all you're talking about are the massive mainstream outlets, then that couldn't be further from the truth.

Either way, I cannot simply take a fan' word for it.

 

[AJ86]

Google News → "Stargate Universe"

 

[Temis the Vorta]

If anything DVR and internet options now should enhance the ratings not detract from them.

DVRs do seem to be helping on balance, with the caveat that advertisers resist counting them, because they know damn well some people zap the ads (I'm amazed everyone doesn't zap the ads, but I guess lots of people like ads?)

The internet stuff is still too piddly to count for much. This most likely will change someday.

 

[Dac]

The internet stuff is still too piddly to count for much. This most likely will change someday.

The legal internet stuff at least. If anything SyFy should be happy at the amount of advertising they got for Sanctuary and Destination Truth etc out of those shitty pop up ads during the show.

 

[Captain Shaw]

If anything DVR and internet options now should enhance the ratings not detract from them.

(I'm amazed everyone doesn't zap the ads, but I guess lots of people like ads?)

.

Sometimes I forget I'm watching the dvr.

 

[AviTrek]

The internet stuff is still too piddly to count for much. This most likely will change someday.

The legal internet stuff at least. If anything SyFy should be happy at the amount of advertising they got for Sanctuary and Destination Truth etc out of those shitty pop up ads during the show.

SyFy only cares about revenue. If someone watches something from an illegal site and doesn't watch any ads, then SyFy gets no money and doesn't care. SyFy cares about DVR viewers in 2 ways.

1) Ad rates are determined by C+3 numbers. So if someone watches within 3 days and watches the ads, then the number is calculated in the ad rate SyFy can set. Live + SD doesn't really matter besides that it gets published and tracks fairly well to C+3.

2) Product placement rates. I don't know exactly how these rates are set, but presumably they care more about total viewers over a given time frame. In fact, SyFy could try to use illegal download numbers when negotiating product placement deals. But of course, it all depends on what an advertiser is willing to consider and pay.

 

[AJ86]

Surely it's the studio that gets revenue from product placement though, not the network?

 

[Noname Given]

Surely it's the studio that gets revenue from product placement though, not the network?

Not usually (unless that's part pf the contract.) basically, the Network pays the studio a fee (and assumes all production costs) per episode; and makes that money back (plus profit) from advertising revenue.

 

[Saquist]

(I'm amazed everyone doesn't zap the ads, but I guess lots of people like ads?)

.

Amazingly I do look for certain commercials. Today the commercials can be more entertaining than the show...like the "Most Interesting Man in the World"
or the Snicker's commercials with Betty White.

Sometimes I forget I'm watching the dvr.

Same here...it depends on how itchy I am to see the show.

DVRs do seem to be helping on balance, with the caveat that advertisers resist counting them, because they know damn well some people zap the ads (I'm amazed everyone doesn't zap the ads, but I guess lots of people like ads?)

The internet stuff is still too piddly to count for much. This most likely will change someday.

Bingo.
That's absolutely right. There has to be some sort of change for these terms of agreement for sponsorship advertisement for internet and download so they all can be counted equally. DVR is just going to be one of those pickles that's going to sting and I think they should get over it. They are adversely affecting the continuation of a show and need to find a way to either get over it or find a way to include it....and I'm the last one that wants commericals commercials because it's already everywhere....

Maybe it's time to start paying for the episodes or something...like some sort of viewer revenue. Just like everything else if you want to see it then pay for it. (internet wise)

 

[bullethead]

DVRs do seem to be helping on balance, with the caveat that advertisers resist counting them, because they know damn well some people zap the ads (I'm amazed everyone doesn't zap the ads, but I guess lots of people like ads?)

The internet stuff is still too piddly to count for much. This most likely will change someday.

Bingo.
That's absolutely right. There has to be some sort of change for these terms of agreement for sponsorship advertisement for internet and download so they all can be counted equally. DVR is just going to be one of those pickles that's going to sting and I think they should get over it. They are adversely affecting the continuation of a show and need to find a way to either get over it or find a way to include it....and I'm the last one that wants commericals commercials because it's already everywhere....

Maybe it's time to start paying for the episodes or something...like some sort of viewer revenue. Just like everything else if you want to see it then pay for it. (internet wise)

I could see a a la carte system for cable channels, where the network gets a cut of money paid for each channel, but not individual shows unless you package them in some on-demand channel.

 

[Sindatur]

DVRs do seem to be helping on balance, with the caveat that advertisers resist counting them, because they know damn well some people zap the ads (I'm amazed everyone doesn't zap the ads, but I guess lots of people like ads?)

The internet stuff is still too piddly to count for much. This most likely will change someday.

Bingo.
That's absolutely right. There has to be some sort of change for these terms of agreement for sponsorship advertisement for internet and download so they all can be counted equally. DVR is just going to be one of those pickles that's going to sting and I think they should get over it. They are adversely affecting the continuation of a show and need to find a way to either get over it or find a way to include it....and I'm the last one that wants commericals commercials because it's already everywhere....

Maybe it's time to start paying for the episodes or something...like some sort of viewer revenue. Just like everything else if you want to see it then pay for it. (internet wise)

I could see a a la carte system for cable channels, where the network gets a cut of money paid for each channel, but not individual shows unless you package them in some on-demand channel.

Yea, if it was by the show, they'd start off at a penny a piece or something real low, so, you'd get used to watching your favorite 5 or 6 or whatever you follow, and then various shows you have on for background noise (Reruns of classics, Classic movies, your favorite reality shows, whatever), and in no time at all, they'd all be $1.00 a week, so even waching 5 shows a weeks, would cost you $20.00 - $25.00 per month (And the next increase would come within 6 months and probably double to $2.00 a show)

Imagine how many more shows would be cancelled that way. If you paid for every single show you watch, you wouldn't bother with things like SGU that didn't take you in right away and wait for them to grow into themselves

 

[AviTrek]

Surely it's the studio that gets revenue from product placement though, not the network?

I don't know, but at the end of the day money is money. Either the network gets the money and factors that in when deciding renewal/cancellation, or the studio gets the money and can sell the show to the network at a lower cost which the network then factors in when deciding renewal/cancellation.

 

[Saquist]

Bingo.
That's absolutely right. There has to be some sort of change for these terms of agreement for sponsorship advertisement for internet and download so they all can be counted equally. DVR is just going to be one of those pickles that's going to sting and I think they should get over it. They are adversely affecting the continuation of a show and need to find a way to either get over it or find a way to include it....and I'm the last one that wants commericals commercials because it's already everywhere....

Maybe it's time to start paying for the episodes or something...like some sort of viewer revenue. Just like everything else if you want to see it then pay for it. (internet wise)

I could see a a la carte system for cable channels, where the network gets a cut of money paid for each channel, but not individual shows unless you package them in some on-demand channel.

Yea, if it was by the show, they'd start off at a penny a piece or something real low, so, you'd get used to watching your favorite 5 or 6 or whatever you follow, and then various shows you have on for background noise (Reruns of classics, Classic movies, your favorite reality shows, whatever), and in no time at all, they'd all be $1.00 a week, so even waching 5 shows a weeks, would cost you $20.00 - $25.00 per month (And the next increase would come within 6 months and probably double to $2.00 a show)

Imagine how many more shows would be cancelled that way. If you paid for every single show you watch, you wouldn't bother with things like SGU that didn't take you in right away and wait for them to grow into themselves

Then the current system it is then if there is no better system.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The internet stuff is still too piddly to count for much. This most likely will change someday.

The legal internet stuff at least. If anything SyFy should be happy at the amount of advertising they got for Sanctuary and Destination Truth etc out of those shitty pop up ads during the show.

Well that's just skiffy advertising their own shows. They can't make money charging themselves for advertising!

To make illegal downloads count, they'll need to pile on the product placement. I wouldn't put that past them. Or just start advertising products in those shitty pop up ads - unzappable ads that will make even illegal downloads pay off. But can you imagine the backlash from legit viewers?

Amazingly I do look for certain commercials. Today the commercials can be more entertaining than the show

Hopefully, DVRs will put selection pressure on advertisers to step up their game and do ads people want to watch. I recently saw a great ad during History Channel's Civil War week, from Dodge Ram, cleverly bringing the show content into the ad so that you might think it was part of the show (which will backfire if the ad isn't worth watching). I couldn't find it on YouTube, but I didn't find another stop-the-DVR ad:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyGlqb1s_n0[/yt]

 

[AviTrek]

The internet stuff is still too piddly to count for much. This most likely will change someday.

The legal internet stuff at least. If anything SyFy should be happy at the amount of advertising they got for Sanctuary and Destination Truth etc out of those shitty pop up ads during the show.

Well that's just skiffy advertising their own shows. They can't make money charging themselves for advertising!

To make illegal downloads count, they'll need to pile on the product placement. I wouldn't put that past them. Or just start advertising products in those shitty pop up ads - unzappable ads that will make even illegal downloads pay off. But can you imagine the backlash from legit viewers?

Even then they'd need accurate measurement numbers and time frame information. The reason nielsen reports Live+SD and Live+7 and C+3 is because advertisers want to make sure an ad is seen in a short window. If a show airs Friday night and there is an ad for a special airing on Sunday, then there is little value if you see that ad on Monday.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Maybe it's time to start paying for the episodes or something..

I already do that, too, through Netflix. That's how I watch HBO shows (and probably will dump Showtime in favor of Netflix rentals except when Dexter is on in the fall.)

If you paid for every single show you watch, you wouldn't bother with things like SGU that didn't take you in right away and wait for them to grow into themselves

That's what happens anyway - shows have to prove themselves immediately or get the axe. Maybe on cable they can be babied a bit, but not much. There's no model for the survival of an SGU type show (and when I checked it out recently, it didn't look to me like it had improved to watchable levels.)

 

[Sindatur]

Maybe it's time to start paying for the episodes or something..

I already do that, too, through Netflix. That's how I watch HBO shows (and probably will dump Showtime in favor of Netflix rentals except when Dexter is on in the fall.)

If you paid for every single show you watch, you wouldn't bother with things like SGU that didn't take you in right away and wait for them to grow into themselves

That's what happens anyway - shows have to prove themselves immediately or get the axe. Maybe on cable they can be babied a bit, but not much. There's no model for the survival of an SGU type show (and when I checked it out recently, it didn't look to me like it had improved to watchable levels.)

Well, yea, SGU was probably a bad example, but, there are a few examples out there, that have been saved by the audience working at being taken in by the show (IE: ST:NG ), but, some shows that currently survive, because people will watch it, because it's on, would no longer survive, if people knew something was coming out of their pocket with every viewing. Also, I suspect, even with a weekly series, based upon previews, people would decide if they were willing to pay for that specific week's episode, or if they'd wait a week (or two) until a "better" episode came on.

And actually, regarding SGU, the first season, was definitely not to my liking, but, by the time the last 10 episodes were airing, I was finding out of that 10 eps, I enjoyed most of them.

 

[Saquist]

I already do that, too, through Netflix. That's how I watch HBO shows (and probably will dump Showtime in favor of Netflix rentals except when Dexter is on in the fall.)

I have to admit there seems little reason to have movie channels at all when there is Netflix.

That's what happens anyway - shows have to prove themselves immediately or get the axe. Maybe on cable they can be babied a bit, but not much. There's no model for the survival of an SGU type show (and when I checked it out recently, it didn't look to me like it had improved to watchable levels.)

Fascinating.
I suspected as much but I haven't done the research.

 

[Kai Winn]

I enjoyed the 2nd season of SGU which SyFy recently broadcasted. Today on SyFy, a travesty called "Beyond Loch Ness" with McGillion and Davis, and I noted a couple of times "Vancouver" in the credits. Not long ago, another atrocity named "Crocosaurus vs Mega Shark" with Picardo. Every time I think a movie can't be any more stupid and cheaper, SyFy takes me by surprise. "Mega Piranha". "Mega Python vs Gatoroid". It's an endless list. This sort of stuff produces better ratings at SyFy than SGU? I'm concerned about the sanity of its viewers, and they might not deserve better.